Secret League match report, bragging boasting thread
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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Jul 02, 2016 - 21:25 |
 
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Forest Gobbos seem ter speshulize in dyin, der diff between av 6 an 7 iz HUGE! Owevva dem spiderz iz gud. Squigz iz a bit borin at der mo az I karnt afford any o dem opperz an me kave squig iz der biggest softy on der pitch tryin ter likk fingz ter deff!
But der best fing iz der ovva teemz, az I az ad ter kum up wiv loadsa kunnin planz ter deel wiv all dese new skill kombos I iz facin. Just nerf 2 chainsaws on a 4 ipno teem az dey iz just ridikuluz! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 02, 2016 - 21:31 |
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Try starting with hoppers Gobbo it makes things much more interesting  |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 02, 2016 - 21:47 |
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I mean, I struggled (relatively) against Four Nations the one time I've faced them -- barely pulled out a draw with my Centigors, who've won their other three games mostly easily.
Anyway, your assertion that they're not competitive has not held true so far. Who knows if they'll continue to win more than they lose, but right now that's the case. (If it changes too much, the roster can still be tweaked.) They have a wide variety of positionals, which isn't true of a lot of SL teams, and allows the team to be built and played in multiple ways. Diving tackle/fend is a real nuisance to deal with. (That'll be even more the case once they get blodge, sidestep, jump up, etc. etc.) The lack of "core" skills is something of an issue at first, but moving forward, they'll pick up those skills and still have the ability to do the other things they start with.
It's funny that you mention Slann and Nurgle as examples, because Slann are fundamentally a well-designed roster, and Nurgle... isn't. Like, at all.
Slann do some things well, and they do other things less well, but they can be played in a variety of ways depending on the opposition and game situation. Their use of leap forces players to think about the game differently. They could certainly be tweaked to be a little more competitive -- either by giving the blitzers block or by lowering their starting price, most likely -- but they bring something unique to the table, and succeeding with them requires strategic play.
Whereas Nurgle... well, take a bunch of orcs, slap regen and M access on them, remove what little variety orcs have to work with, and raise prices across the board. Congratulations -- you've got Nurgle. They're tedious and awful at low TV, tedious and grindy at high TV, and the difference is based mostly on how much block/clawpomb/guard you've managed to spam across the roster. Nurgle "strategy," no matter who you're facing, consists mostly of straightforward positioning and hitting stuff until it doesn't get up. They make orcs look interesting and tactically rich by comparison. They make dwarves look interesting and tactically rich by comparison. They're an utter failure of design, not because they're weak, but because they do one thing over and over again. |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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Jul 02, 2016 - 22:23 |
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Anyone else got any game reports? Other than you Gobbo, you're not to mention how my snotling team could only manage a draw against 4 of your ladz. Whoops. |
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Khan-amil
Joined: Nov 02, 2015
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Jul 02, 2016 - 23:14 |
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Really liking the snakemen, and faced off skaven clan with chainsaw, did really well given their lack of dodge and low AV, was easy to tie them down, and the numbers quickly fell. Still, not much more mobile than dwarves, and for now I'm not sure what to do of the M access on the mesmer.
On the other hand, an AV9 non stunty chainsaw is surprisingly resilient, especially when you're used to stunty, when pretty much any takedown of a chainsaw resulsts in it getting removed from the pitch. Here they stayed the whole 8 turns, until they ended up banned (or rather, dead AND banned for one of them). |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 03, 2016 - 00:17 |
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| ahalfling wrote: | | (That'll be even more the case once they get blodge, sidestep, jump up, etc. etc.) The lack of "core" skills is something of an issue at first, but moving forward, they'll pick up those skills and still have the ability to do the other things they start with. |
You don't seem to grasp that, when Four Nations Forwards manage to have all those skills, the teams starting with Block will still have more skills than them, and will be able to counter their Dodge with Tackle and outbash them.
| ahalfling wrote: |
It's funny that you mention Slann and Nurgle as examples, because Slann are fundamentally a well-designed roster, and Nurgle... isn't. Like, at all. |
If you state that Slann are well designed you are beyond hope of understanding how BB works and how good rosters are designed (clue: Blitzers are supposed to have Block, Catchers are supposed to have either Catch or Dodge, if you don't want to make a Blitzer or a Catcher then don't name the player Blitzer or Catcher, is really that simple).
Nurgle is a badly designed roster, I agree on that,
they suck at low TV due to lack of core skills (not so surprising) and at high TV they are just a clawpomb monstruosity. Clawpomb is another example of bad design but I'm digressing here.
The interesting point is: both Nurgle and Four Nations suck at low TV due to lack of core skills, so, since the Four Nations roster has no Clawpomb access and average stats and it's going to suck at high TV, unlike Nurgle, at least at low-med TV it should be made playable with some core skills.
| ahalfling wrote: |
Slann do some things well, and they do other things less well, but they can be played in a variety of ways depending on the opposition and game situation. Their use of leap forces players to think about the game differently. They could certainly be tweaked to be a little more competitive -- either by giving the blitzers block or by lowering their starting price, most likely -- but they bring something unique to the table, and succeeding with them requires strategic play. |
Slann Blitzers must have Block.
Expensive Blitzers without Block make no sense and, when they die, skilling up the next Blitzer is a pain vs developed teams.
Slann Catchers must have Dodge or Catch at least, as the Catchers of most races.
This way they would be more useful and skilling them up would be more viable.
I would play with more Catchers if they started with good core skills and not sub-par ones like Diving Catch. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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Jul 03, 2016 - 02:25 |
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As for hypnogaze wrecking Four Nations I have beaten two Vampire rosters (Necrarch and Strgoi).
As for the Tier 25 comment, the current 2/0/0 record probably won't last but I think they are much handier than that.
Oh, and to insinuate that I (and other Four Nations fans) do not understand the game or care about winning is borderline insulting. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 03, 2016 - 10:29 |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 04, 2016 - 06:36 |
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I've played two games today, both with my Weres, who pulled out of the Rumble at last minute and are now focusing on gaining experience. This was probably a wise choice, because they're going to need a lot of work to get competitive. Once they get there, though...
The first game, against a Cathay team, was an interesting matchup, in part because of the many unusual interactions between the two rosters' skills. Our werewolves' frenzy was countered by their monks' fend/sidestep, which was in turn cancelled out by our lone werebear's grab. Their monkeys were a real hassle for our werecats, who have the speed and agility to make dodging a weapon even without the dodge skill -- but faced with prehensile tails, that advantage was neutralized. (And forget about the wolves dodging anywhere...)
The game started auspiciously for us, with both wolves scoring casualties on the first turn, leading to a quick TD. Things rapidly evened out on the second drive, and the casualties included our TD scorer, who lost a point of agility and retired after the game. The score was 1-1 at halftime, and despite some small misadventures, the Cathayans controlled the second half fairly firmly. There was a bit of turn 7 excitement when werecat Muriel Davidson double-powed a -2db on the ball carrier, then picked up the ball in the end zone. They managed to knock down Muriel, keep the ball from bouncing into the stands, then pick it back up for the TD. With time running out, our stupid werebear got himself injured trying to headbutt a statue. Stupid werebear.
The second game was significantly less exciting, but more lucrative. I felt bad beating up on the Nauticans, who seemed overmatched from a roster construction standpoint, and weren't helped by early casualties, bad blocking luck, or their bombers' repeated fumbles. We went ahead 2-0 in the first half. In the second, we did very little to prevent them from trying for the TTM, figuring that a one-turn TD would be of help to both teams. Unfortunately, it only worked once, and Nuffle added insult to injury by allowing us a blitz on the last drive. There's always a bit of embarrassment associated with a 5-1 win, but aside from one semi-instinctive crowdpush in the second half, I don't think we ran the score up THAT much. It just happened that way... the Nauticans are a weird roster, and on top of it, Nuffle played favorites. (Also, when your team consists mostly of 7/2/4/7 linemen with no defensive skills and the opposing squad has stunty, it's easy to score quickly and hard to hold onto the ball too long.)
I don't know entirely what to make of the weres yet. My first opponent remarked that they seemed expensive, and with 6 positionals costing 110k or more, that's a fair assessment. But taking a look at the roster, I don't think anything is necessarily a bad deal. The wolves are no different from the necromantic variety, and 50k for 7/2/4/7 and jump up seems like a great deal. (Slann catchers - leap + jump up, for barely more than half the price? Some sort of miniature wood elf lineman? Non-combatant witch elves?) The bears are troll-like, with grab not quite making up for -AV and no regeneration, but being able to carry two slightly diminished trolls isn't bad.
My suspicion is that their success is going to rely on two things: first, picking up some more positionals. As useful as the cats are, they're not the kind of players you want comprising 75% of your lineup. (We'll see if the expense of the positionals makes it difficult to upgrade the roster without TV getting to high...)
Second, it's going to be necessary to skill up the cats quickly, so as to increase their survivability. The good thing is, it's very easy to farm SPPs on a roster so full of AG4 players. The bad thing is, they're incredibly squishy out of the box. (More so than stunties, who at least have dodge -- and, when they do get injured, are disproportionately likely to come back good as new the next game.) For some people, that might mean picking less violent opponents; I don't go in for that sort of thing, but it is going to mean trying to maximize SPP per game by scoring quickly. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 04, 2016 - 20:35 |
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cool, I loved playing against that team, they are a headache because of their speed, agility and frenzy. I wonder how much better they get once they have all their wovles. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 05, 2016 - 00:33 |
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Is the werewolf team viable right now? How are you handling it? |
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thebursar
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Jul 05, 2016 - 09:46 |
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Here is a short match report of my OWRR match.
Zoats vs. Sea Elves
I was a bit anxious before the match about facing Elves with a blanket ag2 team. During the match the difference between a traditional Khemri vs. Elves match became clear as Zoat are faster and a lot more mobile than Khemri and Sea Elves are quite slow.
The Elves chose to kick (I think) and the first half was mainly the Zoats marching the cage up the field and the Elves trying to block the way. Where normally you'd expect a few Elves to be blocked of the pitch the sturdy Sea Elves were hard to remove or even stun. One of the big Zoats was KO'ed but they were able to make a break for the line in t7 and a 2gfi 1d block on the bc failed allowing the Zoats to go 1-0 up.
Second half started with Perfect Defense for the Zoats and this set-up a tough struggle for the Elves. Now it became especially noticeable that these Eves were slow. A push along a sideline was halted by liberal use of sure feet and break tackle and when a Sea Elf Blitzer failed a 1d block next turn the zoats were able to surf the bc, killing him in the process. The ball scattered nicely and the Zoats amanaged to pick it up and run in a second.
All in all a bit of an unlucky match for the Elves, both in their own actions as for the fact that the Zoats failed very few actions and blocks. Which was pretty helpful as I had only 2 rerolls.
Zoats seem like a fine team although I do have to force myself sometimes to use Sure Feet and Break Tackle to get more out of the team even when it feels like something i would avoid with most CRP teams and only use it with key actions. 4 non loner strength 5 is always going to offer some potential though. I managed to skill up a Juve too and went for Sure Hands as it seemed essential.
As for the Sea Elves, they have some definite potential but the slow speed does really hinder them. |
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finster5
Joined: May 13, 2014
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Jul 07, 2016 - 20:48 |
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Query about Elemental teams:
Find them very interesting, but if from a balance perspective it would make sense to give them an apothecary, I suspect there must be a way to justify it (fluff-wise). [like the apothecary ability represents something about their strange magic that we don't understand, but it doesn't necessarily mean they have an 'apothecary' - just a magical ability that can be 'simulated' by the game mechanism of the apothecary]
Have I convinced you?  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 07, 2016 - 20:51 |
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afraid not finster, once they are destroyed thats it they are gone. They are a summoned elemental, they cant heal, though can be replaced once they are broken 
the team is pretty strong anyway so I think you should be ok.
nice one the bursar |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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Jul 08, 2016 - 11:12 |
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First run out with gnomes, vs wasar's dryads
Thoughts:
1. St3 stunty is weird as anything, I kept pulling in assists when I didn't need them
2. Av6 on the runners is nasty, had both of them out for a good portion of the second half. Might consider not using them in the future.
3. Likewise the bombadier, a stunty bombadier isn't the most reliable fella, even Dribblesnot has accurate to mitigate the stunty. But, I haven't tried him yet so will give him a run out.
4. The Willow form Dryads are beasts, maybe I wouldn't have been so scared of them if I'd been able to pin them down but they dodge well too. They don't need looking at or anything, just scary players. Again, thinking I had st2 may have stopped me dodging away as much from the tenatacles.
5. I really think the gnome roster needs a few games to develop, currently it's sitting at mid/low tier but with dodge on a few players and block/wrestle on your linemen it could be at mid tier. |
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