ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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 Posted:
Sep 30, 2016 - 02:47 |
 
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Do orcs typically carry a kicker and or dirty player? They seem too slow to use kick and the combo of only wanting to run 12 players and having 8 st access players + a troll seems to give them tons of killing power without the dp. Add to that the fact you have 8 players between the blizers and bobs taking up the off los rolls on defense a dp would need to be on the line.
So, do you take an orc dp or kicker or do you go straight block fend? |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Sep 30, 2016 - 02:50 |
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Always always always carry at least one dp on any team to take care of (claw)pombers. Fouling is also good against av9+.
As for kick I like to have one if I can. Despite the tactical advantage - of which slow teams profit less - it also makes one turn attempts harder to pull off. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Sep 30, 2016 - 02:56 |
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Guard on a double. still useful, despite orc general ST.
Otherwise... these are useful
DP line orc. try not to skill him further. wrestle if lucks a next skill.
kick line orc. next skills either wrestle or block. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Sep 30, 2016 - 02:57 |
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| Uedder wrote: | Always always always carry at least one dp on any team to take care of (claw)pombers. Fouling is also good against av9+.
As for kick I like to have one if I can. Despite the tactical advantage - of which slow teams profit less - it also makes one turn attempts harder to pull off. |
Do you just put him on the los and let him get punched in the face when you kick? |
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Rbthma
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
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Sep 30, 2016 - 03:10 |
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kick can only be used when not on the line of scrimmage or in the wide-zones, so probably not. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Sep 30, 2016 - 03:14 |
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| Rbthma wrote: | | kick can only be used when not on the line of scrimmage or in the wide-zones, so probably not. |
I mean the dirty player. I don't know how you justify carrying a kicker on orcs unless it is a 5th or 6th skill on a blizer |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Sep 30, 2016 - 03:18 |
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Well, they're often on the los so I don't like Kick on them. I go Block, then Tackle and Fend. Wrestle could work too. No apo for them of course, unless they roll +stat (I would probably ignore +MA, but +ST is great - I'm still undecided about +AG). As for doubles... Yeah, Guard is always good. DT is also amazing on a +ST lino (or positional).
DP linos are cool too, but really, that's if you have a large bench. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Sep 30, 2016 - 03:27 |
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Depends on the matchup.
If the opponent has clawpomb:
Then i value my dp very much and will protect him at the expense of some rookie positional (rookie blitzer first, then rookie BoB).
If the opponent is a bashy nonclawpomb team (orcs, dorfs and the likes):
I still put him on the los because the chance of him getting hurt with av9 is low-ish (and i will need strenght and speed more than the dirty player).
If the opponent is a weak team (no st4+, few guards etc..)
I setup my guard bobs and troll on the los to avoid them being blocked at all.
Dirty player is also valuable in these games because if you down a wardancer or a gutter or some other flashy player and don't remove it, then you want another shot at removing him.
Kick as I said is good to have but never had the chance to get in on orcs for the reason you explained. I guess a dp lineman could also get kick in case he skills. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Sep 30, 2016 - 09:35 |
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I do not understand this "too slow to use kick" idea.
Yes, it is unlikely an orc team will be able to recover and make safe the ball on a blitz! kick-off (although Chandler Crunch, Trevor Harm and a bunch of other statfreaks might disagree). But that's not the sole use of kick - it can add another layer of complexity to a one turn attempt, it can buy you a turn or two vs some opposition, or force them to come to you early, at the very least it allows you to have a slight effect on the momentum of your opponent's drive. As an example: you can force an opponent to the sidelines on his very first turn rather than have to shepherd him there over several, but you can also force a complete rethink (and possible error) if his setup is pointing to an obvious plan for the drive/blitz/turn simply by kicking to an area of the field that he may have left weaker.
Sometimes you can't really stall out for the full 8 on your drive, for a variety of reasons, and sometimes having kick is enough to make scoring in t6 or t7 less problematic; because you know it's possible to still force your opponent to have to make a pass roll with a team that's not suited for passing/receiving just to even get the ball in range. |
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b4nshee
Joined: Sep 28, 2015
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Sep 30, 2016 - 09:56 |
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While on defense I usually put my Troll and two linos on the los and my bobs and blitzers back. Although I can see the use of kick for Orc teams I just find no player to give it to! Kick on a bob or blitzer? C'mon - you can't be serious! And leaving a positionaly out to have a kick lino in the backfield doesn't seem to be a smart move, either. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Sep 30, 2016 - 10:01 |
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I'm a big fan of linemen usually... but with orks its just... everyone is useful but the linemen... hell, even goblins have their merits... but i guess linemen are better for frontline duty and getting killed  |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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All the good advice has been given already, so I'm just going to repackage it and hence look wise.
Orcs, like DE, suffer from 'too many toys' syndrome.
Clearly the team should probably always be built around the 4&4, BOB's and blitzers. And hence it is very tempting to keep these poor little pixels safe.
One of the keys to good Orc play is that the LOS can vary every kick off.
Of course v the true killer rosters, you plop the troll and 2 expendables on the LOS. This will usually be lineorcs and the troll. But it could also be new blitzers, or even rookie BOB's.
Vs Elves, even if all get blocked down, its often worth having a strong experienced LOS and at the least tieing their better players into the LOS battle, or making them avoid it.
So lineorcs dont always need to live on the LOS.
DP is never useless, but as said, there will be games that having a DP, ideally mobile and behind the LOS, will change how the opponent attacks. At other times the dp on the LOS will get a LOT of attention and again maybe suck in some elves/rats/general filth that you would rather were there than off causing havok elsewhere.
As to kick, I usually dump it on the Orc leader caddy. Some call him the Orc thrower. after block and leader he has sod all to take, so KoR and Kick become options. Of course getting an AG4 blitzer, and then sure hands, makes dumping the 'thrower' a good option (av8, and MA5? wow-ch) in which case blitzers do run out of good vanilla skills and MB/guard/tackle/kick is a far from useless blitzer build. Kick is always good, for the reasons mentioned by others, but is perhaps lower priority on Orcs than many other rosters.
So, what do you do with lineorcs? depends on the opponent and how the rest of your team builds, is the shockingly unoriginal real answer. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Sep 30, 2016 - 12:11 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | and hence |
Purple chest confirmed for JonBenét Ramsey's father? |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Sep 30, 2016 - 15:34 |
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Great thread
In a normal Orc side I would say wrestle is their first skill. Way better than block on the LoS. The blitzers & bobs won't take it. Their next skill is generally tackle which is a reasonable combo with ma5 and ag3. Third skill is fend, which makes for a great player for your line. Past then they really need a double or a stat. Having one DT can be good... In practice I found it was rarely used.
However...
My belief is that an Orc side should be guard-stand firm heavy. Like totally stacked with it. It allows you to try to out muscle the clawpombers. In this case wrestle isn't great as you want your Orc to keep his feet. Neither is DP as you need the numbers advantage. So block generally then tackle. And not much else is worth taking. Double = guard.
Kick is great but ensure he won't be on the LoS which he probably will
Guard is your first doubles, though awkward with wrestle |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Oct 01, 2016 - 16:19 |
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Let me rephrase what several coaches have already said in this topic.
You have 4 BoB and 4 Blitzers. That's 8 players already. Most coaches have one troll too. 9 players. If you have a Troll, you also want a Goblin. 10 players. Some play without a Thrower but most coaches have one (I used to play without: the first Blitzer to rolled +AG or a double for Dodge got SH next, but I figured having a second, weaker, ball carrier was a good idea in a very bashy environment like tourneys or very high TV Box). That's 11 players already. So you're likely to have only 3 Linos (or even less).
2 of those Linos will go on the LoS, alongside the Troll, against cPOMBers (4/5 of your games in high TV Box).You want Block or Wrestle on them (then Tackle and / or Fend). Not Kick. Not DP.
Now, you could say "fine, the 3rd one will get DP". That's a good idea but... You generally don't want to use your apo on a Lino, which means you're not likely to have all of them skilled. Not to mention if any of those Linos rolls +ST or a couple of doubles, he instantly becomes a 5th Bob or Blitzer, and loses his spot on the LoS.
I agree with PurpleChest: I would give Kick to either the Thrower or to my Blitzer BC (as a 6th skill). As for DP... I generally play with one or two Goblins, and I rely on them for the fouling. Now of course, you have to roll a double for DP, and a DP Goblin costs as much as a DP Lino, but heck, Goblins are made for fouling (you may want not to trust my judgement on this one)! Or you play with 15 players, in which case a DP Lino would be viable. Sometimes (again, you have 10 positionals to field already). |
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