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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 01:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I have a question:

I got a Blitz! kick-off result against someone I played a couple of months back and they claimed at the time that, according to the BB rules, you're not supposed to be able to use a team reroll during a Blitz!, because it technically doesn't count as your normal turn. However, the client does allow it, which he claimed was a bug and so he said that I shouldn't use a team reroll, even if I had the opportunity (because it would be considered exploiting a bug).

In the actual game it didn't matter anyway, as I didn't need to reroll anything and I used a High Elf catcher to catch the ball, who had a skill reroll anyway. But, I'm curious as to whether he was correct (at the time I was a bit skeptical).

The rules say that a team reroll can be used 'on your turn', but it describes a Blitz! as an extra turn for the kicking player. So, it seems like using a team RR should be allowed. However, this thread makes a good point that the ball doesn't actually land until after the Blitz! turn is ended, in which case the catch doesn't occur during the Blitz! turn.

So, it seems to me that the right interpretation is that a team reroll can be used during a Blitz! turn to reroll something like a dodge or gfi, but you shouldn't be able to use a team rr to reroll a catch of the ball. However, the client does apparently allow a team reroll to be used to catch the ball, which seems to be a bug.

So, is my interpretation correct and, if so, is using a team reroll on the catch roll of a Blitz! considered exploitation of a bug? Just curious what the 'official' line is on this.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 01:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry, I just read the kick-off table again more closely and it does explicitly say that you can use team rerolls during a Blitz! (my bad) So, I guess the question is just about the catching then, and what the FUMBBL stance is. Thanks!

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 01:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, looks like I'm gradually answering my own question here ..

BB Rulebook wrote:
Team Re-Rolls and the Kick-off Table

You may not re-roll the result on the Kick-Off table with a team
re-roll. In addition, subsequent rolls from Kick-Off events such as
the D3 roll for Brilliant Coaching or D6 for Riot may not be rerolled.
A team re-roll may not be used for any catch roll when the
ball lands: however, players may use the Catch or Pro skill to try
to re-roll the catch roll.


So, clearly you're not supposed to be able to use a team rr for the catch on a Blitz!. So, the only bit of my question that is left is - is doing it considered exploitation? Smile

(I should really rtfrb next time before I post .. lol) Razz

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 01:55 Reply with quote Back to top

It's just the catch.

The Blitz! turn is an extra turn for your team, which you can of course, use your team reroll in. However, the kick-off itself takes place after your turn has ended.

You can't use a team reroll on the catch therefore, because it isn't your team's turn (the kick-off itself isn't actually anyone's turn), but you can use skill-based rerolls (eg. pro, catch).

The client gives you the option to use the team reroll for the catch. It should be ignored.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 02:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I did this in ignorance just recently.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 03:14 Reply with quote Back to top

client allows it. this is covered under clent differences, no? everyone RRs the opening catch.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 03:19 Reply with quote Back to top

^^

cf this,

"It is possible for the defending team to use a Team Reroll to catch the ball after a Blitz! kick-off result "

from this thread:

https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=27441

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 03:25 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
client allows it. this is covered under clent differences, no? everyone RRs the opening catch.



Might be a client "difference", but it's still technically against the rules. This is the rules forum, right?!

And no, I don't RR it :p

An unnamed security monkey has told me doing so can get a game canceled on request.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 03:46 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
An unnamed security monkey has told me doing so can get a game canceled on request.


It is a bug, but it might be a bit harsh to cancel games. Seems like many people may not be aware and would do it without even thinking because the client allows it.

Edit: does the client allow team rerolls for catching on all kick-offs, or just on a Blitz!?

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 03:53 Reply with quote Back to top

FUMBBL Rules wrote:
Abusing obvious bugs for your own benefit is not allowed.


I guess it depends on whether it's classed as an 'obvious bug' .. ?

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 04:19 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
pythrr wrote:
client allows it. this is covered under clent differences, no? everyone RRs the opening catch.



Might be a client "difference", but it's still technically against the rules. This is the rules forum, right?!


I think this needs clarification on how we are supposed to handle it.

If it is a genuine bug it means we are not allowed to re-roll.

If it is a rule-difference it means we are just handling it differently and are allowed to re-roll.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 04:48 Reply with quote Back to top

i was under the impression that client differences were not bugs, and should be considered part of fumbbl environment. would love to get clarification on this one!

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xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 05:43 Reply with quote Back to top

If you are aware of it, you are exploiting the bug. If you aren't, you aren't.

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Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 05:55
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

This is not a client difference. This is a bug. Coaches should not use a team reroll to catch the kickoff on a Blitz kick off result. That said - a lot of coaches are unaware and reasonably expect the client to get this correct. We tell coaches to click "no" for the team reroll.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 15:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, thanks for clarifying that, Kryten.

xnoelx wrote:
If you are aware of it, you are exploiting the bug. If you aren't, you aren't.


It's kind of hard to prove one way or the other though, if a particular coach is aware or not (unless they've posted in this thread Wink ). It would be good if there was a list somewhere of which client bugs are considered 'obvious bugs', which could result in a game being cancelled, if they are exploited.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
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