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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Desultory wrote:
Lorebass wrote:

If they purposefully afk or wait 3 minutes and 50 seconds before they start playing then they are a dick. As well as anyone who doesn't at least give warning that "if you take forever again next turn with no reason, I will time you out" and times you out: they are a dick.


No one purposefully takes 3 minutes and 50 seconds before moving all of his players...



never played smallman, have you?

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Tymless



Joined: Jul 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 02:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Really basic.

Don't be a schmuck. Give people one warning if they are slow. If they tell you they need a few minutes let them have it. Expect the same.

Gang fouling you a few turns later has nothing to do with the timeout button. You should be expecting that at anytime. Feel free to do the same anytime.

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happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 02:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
happygrue wrote:


Q: Can I be a jerk but stay within the rules?

A: Yes, it is possible.

Q: But won't that make some people hate me ?

A: Yes, yes indeed!



another fine reason why the timeout button should be used to prevent the turnover, not induce one.


That may be. I can see that working better in some cases and (perhaps) worse in others. One issue is in tournaments when folks have scheduled across wide timezone differences it often means they have agreed that the ONLY time to play the game in the allotted week is to go easy on the timer because one or both are afk at times in the game. This is all well and good under the current system, but what if both coaches go afk? We could close the client each time and load and close and load and so on, or just suck it up on those situations where both coaches go afk and come back to ... who-knows-who's turn.

I think the current setup has an advantage in such and a few other situations, but perhaps your suggestion would save time and hair pulling in others. Hard to say IMO which would promote the greater good.

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m0gw41



Joined: Jun 12, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 02:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Life is not black and white needing rules for every conceivable situation, especially on a site like this. Just listen to people who have played here for a while and take guidance. If you are incapable of making common sense decisions without a detailed rulebook or someone to hold your hand then err on the side of caution and suck it up and don't time out.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 02:52 Reply with quote Back to top

1) Desultory, what would your reaction be if another coach timed you out in the situations you described?

2) This site doesn't have a paid team of admins that operate around the clock, 24/7, therefore some things are handled by an unwritten 'code of conduct'. Almost all of the coaches seem to be fine with it, 99% of the time.

3) I read somewhere that, if you close the client, your clock doesn't necessarily stop ticking. Is that correct?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 03:59 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
3) I read somewhere that, if you close the client, your clock doesn't necessarily stop ticking. Is that correct?
That's my understanding. I accidentally timed someone out once (years ago) 'cuz I got surprised by the timer ding when they logged back on and I happened to be scrolling over the space where the timeout button appeared. I was so startled by the noise that I clicked! Fortunately it was near the end of his turn, and it only cost him one action that he was debating not taking anyway,, so we just laughed it off.

@OP, my opinion is that if somebody tells you they're going AFK, you shouldn't time them out unless they get back and then fail to play their turn out in 4 minutes. It's rude and disrespectful. Gangfouling, OTOH, may be good tactical (or strategic, in a league or other limited format) play, or even a sign of respect. In a tournament, in T16, if the math already says you're gonna lose, not fouling is kind of letdown to your opponent's next opponent.

Conversely, if they habitually wait 3:50 before starting each turn, or hell, if they do it once without an explanation, go ahead and time them out. Deliberately playing slow is a jerk move and you can punish it. Thinking too long carries a penalty. It's okay to use the timeout button to punish overthinkers, slowpokes, and stallers; it's not okay to use it to punish people with crying babies or ringing doorbells or whatever.

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CW



Joined: Jun 25, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 04:44 Reply with quote Back to top

@OP

The current system has worked pretty well for years. I see no reason to change it. It seems you have a negative opinion of admins. I am not sure if that comes from experience on here or elsewhere. All I can say is that I have never found the admins on this site to be anything but forthright.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 06:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Desultory wrote:
Personally I would like to see a clear rule written on this, and some other things regarding disconnection issues. But I understand it probably won't happen.


it would probably lead to insturmentalization, so... is really fine as it is, because it can be used to keep the law-abusive coaches at bay, IMHO.

pythrr wrote:
never played smallman, have you?


and not only him...

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 09:39 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd put it like this:

Even tho some of us, including myself, would prefer that rulings and decisions are crystal clear and predictable, this is simply not what the administration thinks how things should be handled. When you are using the site you simply have to accept that there are areas left to human judgement (as a way to prevent exploitation).
This site isn't democratic and ultimately in some respects one just has to adapt rather than to alter how the situation is.
The best you can do is really fully grasp and understand the situation. It certainly won't change anything when you complain.
easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 10:03 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty sure I've had this conversation with you before, but in a nutshell.....

If your opponent has told you they have to go afk for whatever reason DO NOT time them out. If they are gone for 15 minutes then leave the game and treat it as per the disconnection process.

If your opponent had disconnected DO NOT time them out. Follow the process.

If your opponent is just playing slow then you can time them out, you are under no obligation to give them a warning but it would be nice if you did.

Just play nice and everything will be ok, you have no idea what is happening on the other side of the screen.

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Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 10:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Admins are the heroes of this site and spend their free time to give us gaming pleasure. Hurray for the admins and their judgment!
jarvis_pants



Joined: Oct 30, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 10:58
FUMBBL Staff
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Late to the party on this one.

The timeout button is there but realisticaly should never be used in freindly play where both people are being gentlemen as if they were playing oposite each other on a real table.

Lets have a look at real scenarios,

If your opponent dosent move anything, you cant time him out as you should count is as a disconnect. If your opponent in real life had to step away for a phone call or to change his kid you wouldnt keep playing would you?

And in real life if an opponent was playing slowly, one would assume due to being new to the game, you would help them out, talk them through good ideas and bad etc.

So realisticaly the only time to use the timeout is when your opponent isnt being a gentleman, waiting till the last muinet to play etc, in those cases be the bigger man and step away from the game and consult an admin.

From my experience there is no use for the timeout button outside of tournament play.

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 11:11 Reply with quote Back to top

There was only one time that I really disagreed with the ruling of an admin. We discussed it and I still did not agree.

But... I came to the following conclusion.

I am playing a game for free. This is a service provided by a good group of people for the enjoyment of others. I really have no grounds to complain.

Imagine you gave someone a free ice cream cone and they started complaining vocally and angrily that they like vanilla better than chocolate. That it was not fair that they did not provide you with vanilla.

In my mind I would like to take the ice cream away from them. I certainly would not give them more ice cream.

The folks on this site provide dedication and a gift. The least I can do is say thank you and quit complaining.
Nextflux



Joined: Jan 22, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 12:38 Reply with quote Back to top

We have all different opinions, I actually trust Fummbbl admins to make a sound judgement in most cases, but I think it is problematic that a rule like this is handled case to case basis.
case rulings can be handled wrong, what if one side (1 player) is simply better to talk for himself than the other?

Then there is sportsmanship.. don't be a dick some says, sure.. but to me for example, just playing dorfs is being a dick, so I will time out dorf players!

I disagree with the post over, complaining is a part of life everywhere, people who complain are often actually loyal to the site, we can however be more appricative, though its not so easy for a whole group to be thankful to a group of leaders.

Listening to complains is part of the admins job. that doesnt mean we think they all do a bad job.
If no one was complaining then there would be something wrong with the site.
FTJUK



Joined: Jun 10, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 13:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
In my mind I would like to take the ice cream away from them. I certainly would not give them more ice cream.


Only take it, I would be inclined to shuff it somewhere where the sun doesn't shine!
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