JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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 Posted:
Nov 13, 2016 - 12:05 |
 
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I was a bit surprised that this question doesn't seem to have been asked before (maybe that means it's a stupid one..):
In a game yesterday, I used a (Frenzy) Juggernaut blitz to clear a couple of players off of my ballcarrier, which included one with Stand Firm, who was chainpushed by the player I blitzed. However, my opponent claimed that this was a client bug - that Juggs should only work on the first player blitzed, not subsequent ones that are chain-pushed.
Now, I'm fairly sure the client interpretation is how it's supposed to work, but just want to check. The wording of Juggernaut in the rulebook says 'opposing players may not use Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle', so I take that plural of players to mean all players, including those that may be chainpushed. Basically, Juggs can't be stopped.
Is my interpretation correct, or is it a bug? |
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CroixFer
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
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Nov 13, 2016 - 12:06 |
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If you ask me, it is clearly correct. Jugg is already handicapped enough to not affect subsequent players. Besides, fluff wise, it is the obvious sense. to me, at least. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Nov 13, 2016 - 12:40 |
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here's the actual rule you're quoting:
| Quote: | | A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion. If this player takes a Blitz Action, then opposing players may not use their Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against blocks, and he may choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead. |
Emphasis mine. Why omit that bit? Because that will be the bit your opponent is talking about - your juggernaut player isn't blocking the players they're pushing the other into.
In addition, I'm pretty sure the wording of this rule has been mucked about with in various editions of LRB/CRP (losing the plural on opposing players) for precisely this reason. I know Galak has posted on forums to expressly say his intention was that absolutely only the player actually blitzed loses the sf/f ability. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Nov 13, 2016 - 12:57 |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Nov 13, 2016 - 13:57 |
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Hmm ... interesting and I see your point AD. The wording does seem a bit confusing to me - when could it apply to more than 1 opposing player? You can't use Multiple Block on a blitz.
If it is a bug, it should probably be added to the bug summary thread. Seems like it's one of those bugs that can't always be avoided by the blitzing player.
As CroixFer said though, Juggs is hardly an overpowered skill - what harm would there be if it affected chainpushes? Did Galak give a reason? |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Nov 13, 2016 - 14:14 |
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I don't know how old the rulebook you've got is (lrb5 is written as you partially quoted) - there's also versions that say:
"A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion. If this player takes a Blitz Action, the opposing player may not use his Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against the Juggernaut player’s blocks. The Juggernaut player may also choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead for blocks he makes during a Blitz Action." (emphasis mine)
As said, Galak has clarified in forums (as far back as 2009), that he considered "opposing players" a typo. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Nov 13, 2016 - 18:27 |
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I'm looking at LRB6, which I believe is the most recent one (before this new boxed set, at least). The Juggernaut skill description is written exactly as you quoted in your first post - plural on opposing players. |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Nov 13, 2016 - 18:44 |
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I think it makes sense that the Juggernaut player is barging through someone so that target can't stop him, but that a solid player behind could resist the momentum. Imagine if there were several stand firm players and the Juggernaut hitting one could move the whole line.
However I do think that if blitzed by a frenzy jugs guy a player with stand firm should not be able to use that skill on either the 1st or 2nd hits. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 13, 2016 - 18:56 |
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Should be noted there's also a bug where if you push a stand firm player (who doesn't use SF) into another stand firm player, the second player can't use SF either (no juggernaut required). |
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