59 coaches online • Server time: 23:40
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post POLL: FUMBBLer of th...goto Post Help! My +ST wardanc...goto Post A Very Steely Setup ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Calthor



Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 11:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Hello Secret League-interested coaches,

Some of you might know me from running leagues like CIBBL and SLUBBA. If you don't know me, heya; I've been involved in making the scheduled Euro-SL leagues run.

Many of you know that Secret League was never really 'finished' yet. There was always going to be a moment when, after enough practical experiental information had been collected, that more finetuning of rosters might/would be made. In addition, there were always plans for customized inducement star players for all the custom rosters.

Many of you also know that Secret League was basically the project of just one person: Garion. While Garion employed others for help with icon work or thinking about certain rosters, and while certain rosters refer back to rosters other people created, the entire project as a whole has always been his creation.

Then, around 22 weeks ago, Garion disappeared, left FUMBBL. This happens to many of us, of course, and nobody though much of it, but as time passed, many of us did start to wonder about it.

Within this period, I launched CIBBL, with Burnalot's help, which used its own Ruleset in order to modify and add to SL as we pleased.
As the CIBBL ruleset has started to slowly diverge more and more from the Secret League by a dozen or so changes, I and others with me lamented how Secret League itself was stuck without Garion's presence.

After some communication with others involved with Secret League behind the scene (koadah, Valen, Roland) about what to do with the situation, where I forwarded the idea of setting up a group of us to take control of Secret League out of necessity, it was fortunately revealed that we were in possession of Garion's e-mail address.

I have since been in contact with Garion (I was very happy when I got a response), who never intended to be away for so long, but matters of real life kept him busy. Although will be more fully back at some point, it seems that won't be in the very near future, although he has promised to pop by soonish.

The important part for Secret League, however, is that Garion approved of the idea of having a small (BBRC-like) group to manage Secret League, with myself in contact with Garion to approve or disallow any changes.

This group will consist of myself, Valen, koadah, Roland, Burnalot and neubau.

Keep in mind that going forward, Secret League has hardly become any more democratic. This is still Garion's project, and he is still the benevolent dictator of the project in all ways that matter. Think of it more as a feudal system, where the six of us do the grunt work as autonomous tools in his absence, after which Garion decides what to use and not. As such, when official changes are being made now through us, it is still Garion making the changes.

However, having said that, besides now making sure that people are aware of this change in the situation of Secret League, we do listen to you to see where issues with the Secret League rosters might be, and to sift through your input.

Our goals are as follows:

* Finetune and balance rosters that are overpowered or underpowered - not because all rosters are ever going to need to be within a certain win%-level, but because it would increase overall feeling of excitement and structural balance from roster to roster.
* Deal with any implementations needed because of overall FUMBBL changes - including coding allowing new rosters to be possible, or to make sure we are tuned to the new 2016 rules.
* At a somewhat later stage, create and implement custom Secret League Star Players

We would like to use this thread to collect whatever input you might have, that you feel would improve Secret League, or otherwise related to the subject.
Whatever you say here will be listened to, and all your input will be valued. We might also ask for specific input in this thread.
Do you feel certain rosters are too dull and need spice and excitement? Do you feel certain rosters are too overpowered in some kind of way? Do you have a genuinely good Star Player concept to present to us as possible inclusion, or do you want to offer us your artistic help when it comes to making the logos?
This is the place to do all of that.

Thanks for reading,
Calthor - SL
krom72



Joined: Mar 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 12:16 Reply with quote Back to top

* Finetune and balance rosters that are overpowered or underpowered - not because all rosters are ever going to need to be within a certain win%-level, but because it would increase overall feeling of excitement and structural balance from roster to roster.

I think the gnome teams need a balance or something to give them a more unique style of play, most of the roster got stunty but can't dodge, having a ST3 stunty roster is quite new and having a bomber sw is great but overall missing the ttm or any OTD makes it quite hard to win consistantly. maybe adding ttm to the gnomish contraptions with always hungry (mechanical failure) and right stuff to some players (runners will fit the fluff nicely) or a second bomber or four blitzers could balance it
dorfeus



Joined: Nov 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 12:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Good job team.
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 14:45 Reply with quote Back to top

\o/
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 15:11 Reply with quote Back to top

How I would change Four Nations roster:
- Forwards should start with Block, instead of Fend; this would provide blocking reliability, would be fitting, and would make replacing the Forwards less frustrating, without making the team too strong; taking Mighty Blow or Guard would be just 6 SPPs away.
this is, in my opinion, the most necessary and important change. AG 3 ST 3 teams really need to block reliably to advance, because dodging is risky.

- Full Back and Half Backs are redundant positionals. In such a bloated roster there is no place for 2 pseudo-throwers. They should be replaced by more efficient 0-2 Backs, with MA 6 ST 3 AG 3 AV 8 Sure Hands, Nerves of Steel, Dump Off, GP AS. These players would give a decent pass option to the team after just 6 SPPs, unlike the current Backs, since they lack Sure Hands and they must sacrifice 1 skill slot to take it, delaying Pass and Accurate.
The team lacks speed and has average Agility, Movement, Strength, no Big Guy, no Mutation access, no good core skills such as Block, Wrestle, Sure Hands, Dodge out of the box so it needs more than two MA 7 players: 0-4 Wings should be fine, or alternatively, 0-2 Wings with MA 8.


About Savage Orcs:
AV 7 is bad, even with Thick Skull, and unfluffy. An unarmoured Orc has AV 8, not 7.
I suggest to increase their AV to 8 and remove Thick Skull to keep a reasonable balance.

S access should be removed from Linemen, Orc linemen are not as strong as Orc positionals.

_________________
Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
MachJacob



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 15:57 Reply with quote Back to top

My biggest personal gripes on the matter of the Secret League are to do with mainly Northern Nippon and Half-Orcs. With the former, I feel the Oni is overstatted. Comparing it with a Minotaur, it gains Juggernaut, Thick Skull, Regeneration, +AV and +MA for 30k. Sure they lose a point of AG, but since when has AG been important on a non-Ogre Big Guy, and losing the M access on normals means almost nothing since it starts with Claw anyway, still getting Claw-Mighty Blow at 6SPP. Also including the fact that the team has four Human Blitzers and two almost-Black Orc Blockers, it certainly feels to me like the team's power level is above what it should be, especially when compared with some of the worse SL teams. What I feel is necessary is an Oni nerf, either bringing stats and skills down in line with its cost or increasing the price significantly. Three skills (one being Regeneration) and two stat increases for that price increase are a little absurd,

Onto Half-Orcs, it's like they're designed purely to be a counter team intent on ruining the fun of agile or stunty teams. It's like the problem a lot of people have with Dwarfs, only they're MA6, have four ST4 players, and even more Tackle. Their "weakness" of AG2 isn't even that significant because the Blitzers start with MA7 and Sure Hands. For a start, the only two players in CRP that get MA7 and Sure Hands are both Skaven Throwers, who not only are AV7 but also designed to be faster than the average (In SL, both Hobgoblin Runners and Skryre Jezzails also get this, the former would be useless without, and the latter is still Skaven. But they're still both AV7). Staying on Blitzers, since they start with both Block and Tackle, they get Mighty Blow at 6SPP and suddenly any AV7 team just dies inside. At 16SPP you can have four TPOMBers if you want, and you can't use the excuse of "these killers are meant to level slowly" because they have Sure Hands and are clearly meant to score. The Blockers, when compared to the Black Orc Blockers, trade a point of AV for MA, but then they gain Tackle for free. Then the Linemen get Blockle at 6SPP without the drawback that Norse do of AV7. Put all these complaints together with the fact that Greenskins reproduce asexually, and thus in the fluff Half-Orcs cannot exist, it makes you wonder what purpose they serve. What I would do personally is remove the team completely, but since I feel a lot of people wouldn't like that, the alternative would be a small rework of the team. The rationale for the AG2, "The race had a lower Passing ability than either of its parent races and had no position on the team for Throwers or Catchers." is already fulfilled since they have no Thrower or Catcher positional. And as it stands, they're still Orcs, so they should not have any MA7. They maintain their prices while still having MA6 MA8 by losing their AG, so give the Linemen and maybe Blitzers AG3 back but take away a point of MA from the entire roster (except the Ogre). Move Sure Hands over to the Kickers and take away their Tackle and reduce the price of the Blitzers. While the oppressive Tackle-spam is still there, it's easier to punish the MA5.

Other teams I have smaller issues with would be Clan Eshin (Just a 10k price drop on the Assassins, bringing them in line with Pro Elf Catchers. Or maybe give them Dodge or something so they're less overshadowed by the Gutter Runners), Lahmian (Linemen are too expensive, give them back Thralls), Estalia (Not sure when the solution is, but I don't like AG4 Humans or ST4 Humans, combined with the fact that you shouldn't have ST4 and AG4 on the same team), and probably other small things that I can't think of right now.


Last edited by MachJacob on Mar 04, 2017 - 19:34; edited 1 time in total
Stanley



Joined: Jan 01, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Now this isn't a team thing but a whole SECRET LEAGUE issue in general

Is there anyway that we can put teams up on Gamefinder and don't get challenged by "other" league teams?

So only other teams that appear are other SL teams?

_________________
Image
Calthor



Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Stanley wrote:
Now this isn't a team thing but a whole SECRET LEAGUE issue in general

Is there anyway that we can put teams up on Gamefinder and don't get challenged by "other" league teams?

So only other teams that appear are other SL teams?


Not possible currently, unfortunately. Would be nice if gamefinder would only show teams of the same ruleset, very nice indeed. This is, however, an 'issue' for Christer, which I'm sure he's already aware of.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Nobody can contact Garion?

_________________
There is always Sneaky Git.
Calthor



Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:21 Reply with quote Back to top

thoralf wrote:
Nobody can contact Garion?


Please read again.

Garion has been contacted.
Khor_Varik



Joined: Jul 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Is it planned to add SW rolls to some rosters?
For example Clan Pestilens, Clan Skryres or Nautican are not very playable because of that.
AutoAxpert



Joined: Oct 13, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 18:57 Reply with quote Back to top

The worst problem is with the two Nippon rosters.

I think Nippon is clearly overpowered even compared to normal rosters, and I'm kinda surprised nobody has pointed that out yet. They start with almost everything they need and they just keep getting better as time goes by. Agility? The ninja starts with dodge and AG 4, and block is on a normal roll. Removal? They have 0-2 claw players and up to 4 guys that get MB on a normal roll. Attrition? They have AV8 across the board, aside from the ninjas (who start with dodge and are therefore difficult to bring down) and the monks (who still have agility with normal rolls). Core skills? They only lack Sure Hands, but tha Ninjas are AG4 so that's generally a moot point. Plus, they are rather cheap. Basically you start better than a human team, which is great at the start, and just remain better the whole way. The only thing they lack is strength, but even then with that much removal and claw that's not much of a problem. Basically you have a roster that starts better than the others, is more versatile and has the resilience to get better with time.

Northern Nippon is also a bit too much powerful, but no as much of an issue. The fact is, Northern Nippon is much more reliant on the blocking game while lacking the run & gun options Nippon has. Furthermore, much of it comes from a big guy, which makes it much less reliable than a normal player. Plus, re-rolls are 70k, and for a team that starts with no Sure Hands nor AG4, plus a big guy, that is kind of a big deal. They're still a really strong, just not as overpowered as their southern cousins.

And yes, the Oni is grossly overstatted - just compare him to the Yheetee: Disturbing Presence vs. Horns, Juggernaut, Regeneration, Thick Skull, +MA and +AV AND Mutation access for a mere 40k?

The Oni should cost 20k more or have lower stats, as Regeneration is no ordinary skill. Also I would make the Ashigaru AV7, as it makes sense from a fluff-historic standpoint and it would make the roster much less resilient and reliable (of course for a 10k discount).

_________________
Image

CIBBL! I swear I had a life, before!
AutoAxpert



Joined: Oct 13, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Also, other minor things, like Tzeentch being terrible, the Snakemen icon being too big, etc.

_________________
Image

CIBBL! I swear I had a life, before!
The_Carthaginian



Joined: Mar 05, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I've felt for a while that the Khorne and Slaanesh daemon teams are overpowered. Perhaps not when compared to the the non-secret teams on FUMBBL, but certainly compared to the other Secret League teams.

In contrast, it's rare that you encounter Daemons of Nurgle teams (who should perhaps have TTM on the Greater Daemon for chucking Nurglings).
MachJacob



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 04, 2017 - 19:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Khor_Varik wrote:
Is it planned to add SW rolls to some rosters?
For example Clan Pestilens, Clan Skryres or Nautican are not very playable because of that.


Pestilens doesn't have any Secret Weapons, and currently, CIBBL is using Secret Weapon rolls for both the other teams and more.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits