koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 11, 2017 - 17:58 |
 
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| Garion wrote: | | No it shouldn't because it's not part of the official formula that was used to create all official teams. And all secret league teams. |
I would imagine that you are expected to use your judgement.
If you have two otherwise identical players, but one has just G and the other has GAS. I would consider the GAS guy to be more valuable. The difference could tell after only one or two skills. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 11, 2017 - 18:48 |
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"you don't pay for skill access. That has no bearing on player cost."
The skill access has no bearing only if there is no player development.
Over time the skill access has bearing on a player's (and team's) performance and this should be taken into account by their cost. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 11, 2017 - 20:13 |
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Please let's not derail the thread. The official guide will be used. There is room for adjusting players price by 10k after calculating their cost using the formula for balance reasons and as koadah says common sense then comes in to play.
On topic - any concerns anyone have about current teams ? Too weak, too strong etc.. |
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Dach
Joined: Dec 25, 2015
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Mar 11, 2017 - 20:50 |
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Sorry didn't want to derail, but I will give my "precise" opinion on each roster, then you can make of it what you want  |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Mar 11, 2017 - 20:53 |
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I still feel that sea elf blockers are too good for the cost; though the team as a whole seems like it's at a good place, so I'm not sure what can be done about it. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 12, 2017 - 00:29 |
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| Dach wrote: |
Black Dwarf:
Oh man, dunno what to make of those... I personnaly would change too much thing here. Dwarf with pass and catch? Dwarf blitzer with MA 6 AND AV 9? Too much thing feel out of place. Sorry Garion but we're totally not on the same page for dwarf.  |
For me, this is why this sort of 'group' discussion totally doesn't work. Dach has absolutely no idea what this roster is about, it's roots, the history about it nor the discussion of how this roster came about. Either you know why they have pass and catch or you don't.
Certainly my contribution and the original ideas behind the group are being eroded and I believe the original goal. In my opinion any updates should have reference to the first discussions. And only me and Garion and Zakatan in a lot of cases were privy to that.
So with any updates, please remove me from contributing to Secret League. I cannot agree to this community style of roster making that PBeM decided to do. |
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neubau
Joined: Nov 12, 2016
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Mar 12, 2017 - 00:46 |
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I think you're misunderstanding how this works, this is not a community driven roster update. The thread is about finding possible problems with the current rosters. The changes will be very minor and everything has to be approved by Garion. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Mar 12, 2017 - 05:30 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | I cannot agree to this community style of roster making that PBeM decided to do. |
This is a feedback thread. Garion's minions asked for it. They'll forward their suggestions to Garion. Garion remains the lead developer. All the rosters are vetted by Garion, so I don't think calling them "community style" is appropriate.
PS: I hope people now realize why I asked Garion to step in. |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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Mar 12, 2017 - 10:14 |
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I am going to state this one more time, extra clearly.
Do not expect any major changes to (nearly) all rosters. We are looking for experiental finetuning experience of issues that could do with attention. The Northern Nippon's Oni, the Von Carstein's vampires, these are the kind of things we were looking for. (I am mentioning these because we already decided what to do with those, mind you.)
The things we would be doing is minor finetuning with skills, or minor price increases or decreases. If you are suggesting much more, then you are misunderstanding what we are asking here.
And finally also one more time: This is still Garion's project. While the work of going through them, talking about them, and suggesting any changes to Garion is done by us as a small group, it is still just as much Garion's work and Garion's creation as ever. He says yes or no to it all.
With that said, back on topic please. If I feel like things are getting a bit too much out of hand, I might stop things and ask for feedback in different ways as we feel we might want/need. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Mar 12, 2017 - 10:45 |
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| MachJacob wrote: |
What I do think should also be happening here, is instead of just addressing the high winrate teams, we should also be discussion the low ones. Nautican, Lumbria, Squig and Skryre are all =< 30% and while they (and Snakemen and Lybaras) are buffed in CIBBL, the rest of the teams down there should get something. |
From someone who has never played Secret League. I looked at the rosters and thought: I just love snakemen. As I examined the rest I realised they really sucked. And so I haven't played a game. Though, I may not have anyway, really busy. Anyhoo, wanted to echo the above quote. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 12, 2017 - 11:05 |
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I think saying the rest sucked is over egging it a bit. There are plenty of tier 1, 2 and 3 team in secret league. But whenever unsure of something I always tried to make them slightly on the weaker side rather than having a bunch of op teams. That said there is certainly room to make some a little stronger. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Mar 12, 2017 - 11:23 |
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That is fair, and I apologise.
Certainly, they were on the weaker side, and I could not look at them and understand how I would be able to win with him.
I think a good place to start is the cost issue with the Runner. -1AV and +1MA is considered equal. So for Side Step you pay $20,000. They should be $70k.
The same could be said of Mesmers, I don't think it is pronounced as Hypno Gaze is better than the average skill, as is having M access.
Also, I would think the constrictors could be 90k. The statline plus skill would indicate 90k, compared to a Black Orc. Sometimes the price goes up by $20k. But also, av8 is pretty harsh for a blocker, so I think 90k works much better.
edit: better yet, make them 110k with av9 |
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Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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Mar 15, 2017 - 00:22 |
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Ok, my 2 cents about Gnoblars, since as far as I know nobody has said anything about them.
I haven't played with them, but imho they are probably not very competitive and are missing some distinctive features. I love the icons (see avatar), but as they are right now I don't find them very appealing. I'd suggest two buffs for their more representative players:
- The Maneater is supposed to be an experienced and well-travelled Ogre and the pillar of the team, whereas right now it is merely a vanilla Ogre. How about Ogre + Pro and Leader for 190k?
- Trappers were quite powerful in Warhammer Fantasy, and they were represented as being very well equipped for such a lower race. I would say, increase their AV and decrease their MV to make them better at marking players: 5238 for 50k. This way after Side Step and Diving Tackle they become terrific markers without dying after the first block. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2017 - 00:43 |
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| Garion wrote: | Please let's not derail the thread. The official guide will be used. There is room for adjusting players price by 10k after calculating their cost using the formula for balance reasons and as koadah says common sense then comes in to play.
On topic - any concerns anyone have about current teams ? Too weak, too strong etc.. |
Lumbria is a bit weak
Mostly due to player costs, and an inability to start with a bench like most stunty rosters.
Barring any change to cost, I'd consider a second yowie as a means of improving the roster (likely with a drop to ST5, so as not to be too much of a boost) or boosting kangors to AV9. Heck, as it stands now, I can't see myself purchasing kangors, especially on a rookie roster, due to costs. Getting to 11 players with a yowie and 3 RRs leaves you enough cash to either roster 1 kangors for a12th man, or purchase an apothecary. Comparing that to a team like Clan Eshin, who can start at 12 superior players with 3 RRs or 11 and an apo leaves them feeling far too inferior in most matches.
Lumbria is also an incredibly dice heavy team, similar to ogres and vampires, but lacks the mitigating factor of a bench those rosters have |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 15, 2017 - 03:57 |
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Changing Kangors' quantity from 0-4 to 0-6 might help the roster. |
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Gnomes are trash
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