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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 18:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the OP retired his teams, not admins deleted his teams Laughing

as far as cancelling the game, well everyone presses the wrong button - we're only human and it got solved. You at least stuck around to see that it did. You have some experience pressing the wrong button from what I understand right Gozer? Very Happy
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Rbthma wrote:
Well after OP's post I spectated a few of his matches and he seemed to be getting frustrated, so I would suspect that to be the reason.

Catalyst32 wrote:
...that he fell through a completely avoidable gap (if you understand it) in FUMBBL Site Government ...if nothing else he might not have the bad experience that would led him to tell every other nerd he knows about how horrible things are here.


I forget what axe you're grinding here, but:

-FUMBBL is a community, not some Government and the admins do a great job imo

- things are hardly horrible here - quite the opposite as I quite enjoy it.


I don't think Catalyst was suggesting that things are horrible here, just that that's the impression a new player might get (and pass on to their friends), if they run into the sorts of issues that have been described and they feel they have been treated unfairly.

I agree that fixing these 'adjudication' issues should be a high priority. As was mentioned in that other thread about growing the site, things that contribute to giving new players a bad experience aren't going to do us any favors.

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DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 20:39 Reply with quote Back to top

New players are at the mercy of joining the wrong league straight away. I was in one I thought was fine and then suddenly it turned openly hostile. I've met some great people here, but also some pretty petty ones. It doesn't detract from the site and the community as a whole, but it did affect where I go to play my games.

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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 20:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not denying that coaches may have had issues with adjudication - I really don't know.

I understand what Catalyst was getting at, but it seems way over the top to me. We don't know exactly what happened and the OP hasn't stuck around to explain it clearly either, so much of it is speculation. No need to conflate your issues with his and start describing FUMBBL as some Kafkaesque bureaucracy with shadowy minions running around behind the scenes Wink

If the goal or concern is the about growing the user base, then how about focusing on the coaches that are here currently and their experience. The newest 145 tournament has around 35 coaches (excluding myself and other helpers) and about 80%+ of those are either brand new to FUMBBL or have less than 50 matches and are struggling. I'm not suggesting everyone jumps into the tournament with a stunty team (there's no room anyhow), but there are plenty of ways to help them out in R or B. or wherever they're playing and give them a great impression of what FUMBBL can be about.
Gozer_the_Gozerian



Joined: May 30, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 21:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I mean it was an extreme thing to do from the OP that he deleted his teams, I would have been really surprised if the admins did that lol. I can appreciate his frustration though, what happened to him sounds pretty unfortunate.
DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2018 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Gozer_the_Gozerian wrote:
I mean it was an extreme thing to do from the OP that he deleted his teams

Been there. I understand it completely.

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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 09:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Rbthma wrote:
Well after OP's post I spectated a few of his matches and he seemed to be getting frustrated, so I would suspect that to be the reason.

Catalyst32 wrote:
...that he fell through a completely avoidable gap (if you understand it) in FUMBBL Site Government ...if nothing else he might not have the bad experience that would led him to tell every other nerd he knows about how horrible things are here.


I forget what axe you're grinding here, but:

-FUMBBL is a community, not some Government and the admins do a great job imo

- things are hardly horrible here - quite the opposite as I quite enjoy it.



I've got no Axe to Grind. This is the best site on the internet.

But it DOES have a government... of trusted volunteers. And it has rules that those in site government enforce.
In this case I do think this guy asked the wrong bureaucrat to fix his problem. It's as if he called the Dept of Motor Vehicles and he needed to call Dept of Public Works.
I'm sure the guy at the DMV did a bang-up job. But it didn't solve this guys problem because the guy didn't know the DPW existed.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 10:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
It's also odd that this was in the BB open tourney, so the rage-quitter gained a point for this, while I got nothing.


It sounds like a regular box Steele Trophy game.

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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Rbthma wrote:
I'm not denying that coaches may have had issues with adjudication - I really don't know.

I understand what Catalyst was getting at, but it seems way over the top to me. We don't know exactly what happened and the OP hasn't stuck around to explain it clearly either, so much of it is speculation. No need to conflate your issues with his and start describing FUMBBL as some Kafkaesque bureaucracy with shadowy minions running around behind the scenes Wink

If the goal or concern is the about growing the user base, then how about focusing on the coaches that are here currently and their experience. The newest 145 tournament has around 35 coaches (excluding myself and other helpers) and about 80%+ of those are either brand new to FUMBBL or have less than 50 matches and are struggling. I'm not suggesting everyone jumps into the tournament with a stunty team (there's no room anyhow), but there are plenty of ways to help them out in R or B. or wherever they're playing and give them a great impression of what FUMBBL can be about.



BUT WE DO KNOW that he said he filled out a SUPPORT TICKET and then he got a bad result in he TOURNAMENT he was playing in where his opponent go the win... nd his opponent appeared to be ducking him to get that win.

In brief THAT is what he said.

Well... you DO NOT fill out a Support Ticket to contact your Tournament Admin... do you?
NO. You contact the Tournament Admin for that Tournament DIRECTLY.

Yet. He filled out a Support Ticket.
Those MIGHT go to the correct Admin for your Tournament.
But they are more likely to go to a Random Admin... as in the very NEXT Admin to log in to the site and check to see if there are any Support Tickets.

So... let us extrapolate on this.
The Site Noob fills out a Support Ticket at at X Hour BBTime and logs out.
The TOURNAMENT Admin forfeits the game on a Coin Flip at Y Hour because the weekly deadline has passed.
Another Admin logs in a checks the Support Ticket and sess that it has already been resolved... and his opponent won.
So this Admin deletes the support ticket because it resolved itself.

Ergo... the Site Noob went to the WRONG part of the FUMBBL Bureacracy. as I have deduced from what he said... but that everyone else was missing based on what he actually, LITERALLY said.

Now... I cannot know for certain that I am right. Kryten posted some issue the Admins are having that could also explain what happened (I think. As I understand what Kryten said.)

But if I am correct it IS a Bureaucracy Issue... as encountered by someone too inexperienced to better navigate FUMBBL because he likely did not read the Tournament Rules.
And let's face it... the rules around here are SOLID... but they are also TLDNR for most people that just want to PLAY A GAME.
So they don't know HOW to do all kinds of stuff here unless they have a IRL friend to show them around.

You are flat out IMAGINING certain shadowy figures in what I am ACCURATELY describing.
You are taking what I have said and spinning it into some monster I have created rather than a LOGICAL GAP between certain departments on the site.
The GAP makes sense, as in WHY it is there... but it IS a gap between departments.

Each Admin enforces the site the way THEY see fit based on site guidelines and AFTER they enforce the site rules there is no direct over-site.
So... there was no contact between the Tournament Admin and the Random Admin in my example... understandably so because of this GAP... plus adding this extra level of contact would be TOO MUCH WORK for unpaid volunteers.

I realize too when I say Admins enforce site rules the way THEY see fit that they do sometimes bring in other Admins to discuss how to handle some issues... the tricky issues.
But in general they act as judge, jury and executioner of site rules based on the principles handed down by Christer-the-Law-Giver.
And I would say 90% of the time (probably more than 90%) they do a great job.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 15:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Now we're back to suggestions for improving the FUMBBL experience.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

BUT WE DO KNOW that he said he filled out a SUPPORT TICKET and then he got a bad result in he TOURNAMENT he was playing in where his opponent go the win... nd his opponent appeared to be ducking him to get that win.

In brief THAT is what he said.

Well... you DO NOT fill out a Support Ticket to contact your Tournament Admin... do you?
NO. You contact the Tournament Admin for that Tournament DIRECTLY.


Which tournament was he playing in?

It sounds like the Steele Trophy.

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easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 17:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Just had a quick look into this one and it was not an Official Tournament game.

Possibly a case of the wrong button being pushed by the security officer on this one if I had to make a guess. Sucks but it does happen occasionally.

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DonnyRainboe



Joined: Sep 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Just out of interest how long would you wait before submitting a second ticket or creating a thread to get help with an issue like this?

Anyone know the current backlog of tickets? I'm guessing it's over ten days.
easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 18:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Backlog is now gone.

Normally tickets are handled daily.

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Gnoblar



Joined: Mar 01, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 20:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I've just had this happen to me. My turn I was going to run in for the TD decided for a blitz first -AG his blitzer and then as I start moving my player towards the end zone he leaves.

Pm'd him about it but he has now been offline for 5 days. Unfortunately even though I was 1 - 0 up and cruising the client works by both players logging events so as he left seconds before I scored my TD the client still classes it as a nil nil and so the admins have had to put it through as a draw which isn't great for my record (I was attempting a win streak) as currently admins can't force concede players.

I would like to thank easilyamused though, he was the staff member assigned my ticket and I appreciate him getting back to me promptly and explaining the situation,

But this whole process has really wound me up. I know the admins understand this so I guess we have to be patient until the force forfeit button is back up and running and I believe that they understand how annoying and unfair the current system is because a player could score a quick 1TD and leave the game and then be granted the win still!

The draw result also means my Rating has taken a bit of a hit as he was a low CR opponent, that's super annoying. :/

Is it possible to change results in future? As in once the button is working again can administration go back and update the result? I doubt it, or can I ask for the result to be withdrawn and hope the player comes back so we can finish? Or is it a case of once it's been put through, it's through and that's it?

And to anyone who thinks of doing this please don't. It's a time waste and it is frustrating and it is so much easier just to concede the game on your turn instead of forcing your opponent to go through this process.
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