Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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 Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 14:57 |
 
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| Harad wrote: | I'm not sure that's entirely fair.
You mean a) 'there may be people who decide that the four coaches rule needs to stay for reasons I don't agree with where I cannot provide such a clear argument as to convince them otherwise' and b) 'no one important enough to implement the change thinks it's important i.e. they hear our voices but don't agree'
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Getting a group of people to agree on anything is impossible so I don't bother trying. I'm just saying the reasons why I left.
But now I'm down the rabbit hole again:
I think the 4 coaches rule is clearly stupid, as it prevents games for the 2 following reasons?:
- in order to stop cheating? Really. Who bothers making two accounts to play each other in Blackbox to get good Blackbox teams. If some one was a big enough loser to do that, wouldn't it be so obvious any way that an admin could do something about it. Do people do this in ranked? So why would they do it in Blackbox. It's a paranoia reason for making a stupid rule.
- in order to stop large TV matchups.
There are clearly better solutions to prevent these 'problems'.
I could sit and type out multiple solutions that meet the criteria but I've seen passionate guys like MattDakka and Wreckage do that in the forums for the last 10 years, and nothing changes.
I'm not complaining. I barely care. But I think it's probably a part of why people leave. |
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Last edited by Desultory on %b %07, %2019 - %15:%Jan; edited 3 times in total |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 14:59 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | Reading this, basically I'm seeing our core problem, and it seems to be pretty intractable.
Christer is one guy, and he's got a job doing something else. He loves getting qualified help, and it's available, but he doesn't want help that makes him become a project manager, and that's what it's gonna take to make a major upgrade. But the world moves faster than that.
I'm not sure we can change this dynamic, and I'm not qualified to propose process solutions that would improve on the current state of affairs. But this is the elephant in the room. |
Exactly. But we aren't allowed to discuss that because "It's a free site" and I'm being entitled/whining if I present any criticism. |
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Last edited by Desultory on %b %07, %2019 - %15:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| MattDakka wrote: |
2) I agree with this, currently my Dark Elf team is stuck in a game abandoned by my opponent on 25 December, he keeps on connecting to the site ignoring the PM I sent him, he ignores security staff as well but they can't force a concession.
An automated concession system after 3 days for the Black Box division would prevent the hassle of bothering admins and wasting time sending PMs and waiting for guys who are not willing to finish the match they abandoned. |
Staff being unable to force concessions is a client bug, and one that's more frustrating for us than anyone. It came about during the last update. Hopefully it's something Christer can fix now he's starting to look at the client code. Needless to say an automated concession system wouldn't work with the bug in place anyway.
Also, how would an automated concession system work? How does it know who is in the wrong? Is it always the first person to disconnect that gets the penalty? If player A has to leave suddenly in an emergency, player B can refuse to reschedule the game and get a free concession win? It's ok to suggest these things, but I don't see how it would work in a way that people were happy with. |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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I am not sure your characterisation of the problem or outcomes is at all fair. It seems to me somewhat influenced by only rating outcomes you agree with.
So, as to defending the 4 coaches rule:
I am not sure anyone has or will. What is more likely to be defended is the reason for the 4 coaches rule, which is to prevent abuse by people knowing full well who they will then play and hence ruining the point of blackbox for a great many blackbox coaches, who not only wish to face randomly drawn teams, but also to only face teams that have faced the same.
Personally I dont care at all, and would be happy to face any team the box throws at me.
But your complaint, which I do think has validity, that the 4 coaches rule prevents some games that would be fair and challenging and hence frustrates and alienates coaches, does not engage with the reason for the rule, only with the outcome for you, as you no doubt do not intend to cheat.
So either 'they' (he, Christer, it's his site, he decides) need to be persuaded your need is shared by more coaches, or is a greater need, than the perceived need and/or gain that drives the rule, or your suggestion solving your problem needs to engage with and solve that problem as well.
Or else is just comes over as whining.
So how about, if 2, or 3, coaches activate but there is a decent number of potential match ups to still create still the certainty of a fair and random decision as to what teams get drawn, the draw still goes ahead.
This would
a: Help generate more games at slower times
b: Still have some level of abuse prevention
c: encourage multiple team activation
d: seem less selfish
On the 100 page thread needed to make 'them' listen.
Sorry but I do not agree. Chister is all of 'them', and he is weirdly obsessive about the site he runs for free at personal financial loss, and reads HUGE amounts of threads. I have seen him respond to issues raised by lone voices in threads with single posts.
Again i would ask you to infer less from personal experience and the subjective view it has given you, and maybe research a little wider before making such broad accusations.
Just because you feel your voice isn't listened to, it doesn't mean people don't listen at all to anyone. there are other options, like are you speaking clearly? and coherently? does what you say make sense? what is the weight of experience and knowledge behind the thought expressed?
As one example, when JackSteel, brand new to the site, suggested the BlackBox Trophy concept many were sceptical. Some wise Guru (me actually) predicted he would be here 2 weeks, play little and disappear. His format got some interest and a few (about 10) coaches decided we'd give it a go. Christer, from no where, built the trophy pages and implemented the scoring and support. That's when it caught fire and went HUGE.
A tiny idea, from a totally new player, changed FUMBBL massively overnight. Your ideas can too, but it is not a right. Maybe you could put some thought and criticism into the message and messenger and not entirely onto the recipient? |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 15:28 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: |
Also, how would an automated concession system work? How does it know who is in the wrong? Is it always the first person to disconnect that gets the penalty? If player A has to leave suddenly in an emergency, player B can refuse to reschedule the game and get a free concession win? It's ok to suggest these things, but I don't see how it would work in a way that people were happy with. |
If player A leaves an automated countdown starts.
Player A has 3 days to rejoin the site, contact player B and resume the game, or he will lose.
Player B has to resume the game, if he doesn't, player A can contact the admins.
At this point if player B keeps refusing to play the game player A gets the win after 3 days.
If this is too tricky, then an automated concession after 1 hour (which is a lot of time compared to the standard of online games, which is 5 minutes as far as I remember) instead of 3 days could work too.
If the leave was due to genuine emergency your life will not be ruined by a loss, while if you tried to exploit the system you will be punished. |
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Christy
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 15:43 |
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Having default picks for each race would be great. Not sure how hard it is to do but sounds on the more reasonable side of things. There are suggestions for each race already so just pick one of them.
The 2 minute turns thing is an interesting suggestion. Can leagues implement that? And maybe have an option on ranked/blackbox to have only 2 min turns or only not 2 min turns or I don't care when you put a team up for a game. Reckon that might split the base too much though.
The suggestion to streamline the process of an abandoned match is also good though it is a rare case when it happens here.
Money for in game stuff is what will make me quit. 10spp is absolutely pay to win. I would be OK with pay for cosmetic changes (like team fortress players paying for hats). I would not buy but I would not care if others did. |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 16:32 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | Some wise Guru (me actually) predicted he would be here 2 weeks, play little and disappear. |
I'm pretty sure that I was the first one who doubted his promised reward. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 16:33 |
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I disagree with 2 minute turns. I also disagree with 4 minute turns. It takes longer to plan with 11 players than it does with 1.
I would say have 15s plus 15s per player. So with a single player on the pitch you have 30s. With 11 players you have 3 minutes.
Or if you think 3 minutes is a bit too tight, make it 20s + 20s*players, which means 4 minutes with 11 players and minimum 40s. |
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garaboum
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 17:00 |
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Maybe FUMBBL need new lrb7 more balanced field rules(not talking about leagues rules wich are great here).For exemple human have catcher 8 av blitzer 80k ,new stunty rules for dodge, 7 skills for legend ect... |
Last edited by garaboum on %b %07, %2019 - %17:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 17:04 |
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| Desultory wrote: | | we aren't allowed to discuss that because "It's a free site" and I'm being entitled/whining if I present any criticism. |
Not quite. You are however being VERY entitled when you play 1000 games at someone else's expense and then you have the balls to ask for them to refund your donation when something happens that makes you unhappy.
That's something very far removed from the question whether or not you are allowed to discuss potential improvements. |
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Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 17:55 |
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Donations are never refundable and are given without any conditions. |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 18:11 |
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| garaboum wrote: | | Maybe FUMBBL need new lrb7 more balanced field rules(not talking about leagues rules wich are great here).For exemple human have catcher 8 av blitzer 80k ,new stunty rules for dodge, 7 skills for legend ect... |
Where are these rules from? They're not the official GW rules afaik |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 18:25 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 19:34 |
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After my opponent left on 25 December leaving my team stuck till today what happened?
The game is cancelled, and my opponent's behaviour is rewarded.
No consequence for him (he will get a warning, but let's face it, not a serious punishment), and I don't get the win. |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2019 - 19:36 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | After my opponent left on 25 December leaving my team stuck till today what happened?
The game is cancelled, and my opponent's behaviour is rewarded.
No consequence for him (he will get a warning, but let's face it, not a serious punishment), and I don't get the win. |
Sigh...
So instead of continuing your discussion through pm with me, you whine in public.
Nice play. Jeez. |
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