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Bloodfeast



Joined: Sep 02, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 12:08 Reply with quote Back to top

When is the skill usefull and worth taking? If you decide to take it on a player that people wanna get away from, it is mostly a quite slow player and he chance is therefor quite low in succeding.

And there is no use on taking it on fast fragile player cause people rather hit him than run away from him, but on the other hand he is better at shadowing.

Tackle and tentacles are also better skills for big nasty players.

So, one of the few races I can see use it are saurus and Kroxigors but I have not seen it in use in a very long time on either race so what do you say?

Is shadow worth taking and if so, when?

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 12:15 Reply with quote Back to top

It is useful on fast players, like gutter runners or elf catchers. You would use it usually along side Blodge and Side step, so you have a player attached to their ball carrier for example then they have to make rolls to escape. sure the player will get hit, but this type of pressure from agile teams is how agile teams win.

Possibly the bigger question is - is it worth taking over diving tackle? and I would argue not. Though having a mix of options is nice.

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Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 12:16 Reply with quote Back to top

On a move 8 tackler vs Halflings, goblins and snotlings. That's it.

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awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 13:03 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd get it on a Beast of Nurgle: the more dice your opponent rolls, the hgher the chance of a failure popping up.
tho, there are way better choices for a double on a BoN...

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Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

would you really use the double on a beast of nurgle to give him shadowing awambawamb?

I agree with the fast agile teams benefiting from it, once you put preassure on the ball on a slow team, if they cant get away and regroup, that is game over for em
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

awambawamb wrote:
I'd get it on a Beast of Nurgle: the more dice your opponent rolls, the higher the chance of a failure popping up.
tho, there are way better choices for a double on a BoN...


It comes down to opportunity cost. There are a dozen better skills and you have to turn those down to get it.

Block/dodge/guard/tackle/mighty blow/stand firm/diving tackle/side step/claw/break tackle/frenzy/dauntless/kick/pro/strip ball.

If the player makes it to legend baring stat increases he can have six of those. Which ones are you willing to give up in exchange for shadowing?
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top

This is an example of a player that makes shadowing incredibly annoying. If you want to get away, you have to dodge. If you make the dodge, you have to avoid DT. If you avoid DT, you have to beat shadowing, and then likely have to do it all over again the next square. Eventually, you're going to fail something, and I now have a gutter runner in place to scoop the ball and go.

Also, shadowing allows you to follow up after a block, giving more positioning options, that help make shadowing a versatile skill.

With all that said, shadowing players are going to end up in contact a lot, so they will get hit, and getting hit will kill them. They're useful, but often the best are fragile. Ideally, you want multiple shadowers on a team to make effective use of it. When I have multiple, I like to place them on the back row of a stack, so that they're safer from being blitzed, and getting through my 2 deep stack requires the activation of shadowing.

Shadow tends to be a better skill against agility teams than bash teams. Bash will just pound the shadower into oblivion, while agility may try to get away from it. That said, I might take shadowing as a 2nd double on a Krox or a Rat Ogre, purely for the lulz. They at least have enough MA to make some use of it, and it synergizes quite well with their prehensile tails.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Antithesisoftime wrote:
This is an example of a player that makes shadowing incredibly annoying. If you want to get away, you have to dodge. If you make the dodge, you have to avoid DT. If you avoid DT, you have to beat shadowing, and then likely have to do it all over again the next square. Eventually, you're going to fail something, and I now have a gutter runner in place to scoop the ball and go.

Also, shadowing allows you to follow up after a block, giving more positioning options, that help make shadowing a versatile skill.

With all that said, shadowing players are going to end up in contact a lot, so they will get hit, and getting hit will kill them. They're useful, but often the best are fragile. Ideally, you want multiple shadowers on a team to make effective use of it. When I have multiple, I like to place them on the back row of a stack, so that they're safer from being blitzed, and getting through my 2 deep stack requires the activation of shadowing.

Shadow tends to be a better skill against agility teams than bash teams. Bash will just pound the shadower into oblivion, while agility may try to get away from it. That said, I might take shadowing as a 2nd double on a Krox or a Rat Ogre, purely for the lulz. They at least have enough MA to make some use of it, and it synergizes quite well with their prehensile tails.


If you almost exclusively play against agile teams that could be a very annoying player. But he is an expensive S2 AV7 player that has to be adjacent to an opponent to be effective.

Against anything except elves, rats, and frogs, that player probably will not be on the field long.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Shadowing is mostly best against one thing - Break Tackle guys where DT might not make a difference.

But it is also handy when just marking a ball carrier in a cage after you've busted one of the corners out. The Shadowing skill combined with Side Step allows you to either dance around OR requires the opposing coach to dedicate more resources to blocking him than he would require with SS alone.

On the whole I'd rather have DT for the wider applicability but Shadowing can be really nice for the best situation I described and just generally something else the other coach keeps track of.
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

There's a magic card that gives you Shadowing for a drive (I forget which one it is) and it can still be a lot of fun (had it on a +MA Orc Blitzer with Tackle) but of debatable value as a permanent skill.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I would take shadowing over DT on an elf catcher/blitzer who has mb. Logic being if I have to put him in contact, I'd rather he gets to potentially hit something the next turn rather than simply stand up or eat the reduced movement.

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Bloodfeast



Joined: Sep 02, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 18:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with that a gutterrunner/catcher can be anoyying but as pointed out as soon as he gets drawn into a nest of bashers he will have 3db against him and he will be out. Ofocurse your not gonna use it until you need to use it, but every skill you dont use, is a waste of TW.

So, what would be the best position for being most useful? Ofcourse A krox would be great with shadow but apart from guard, break tackle and stand firm as normal and block, pro, dodge as double, I cant see shadow be more useful than any of those skills.

As far as I can see all I can come up with is a saurus. As there is 6 of them I can see having a block, guard, shadow as one of them without losing too much of something else.

Am I on the right path, and/or what other positionals/races would be most useful against both bash/dash. (gobos, snots, halflings doesnt count Smile )

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Bloodfeast wrote:
I agree with that a gutterrunner/catcher can be anoyying but as pointed out as soon as he gets drawn into a nest of bashers he will have 3db against him and he will be out. Ofocurse your not gonna use it until you need to use it, but every skill you dont use, is a waste of TW.

So, what would be the best position for being most useful? Ofcourse A krox would be great with shadow but apart from guard, break tackle and stand firm as normal and block, pro, dodge as double, I cant see shadow be more useful than any of those skills.

As far as I can see all I can come up with is a saurus. As there is 6 of them I can see having a block, guard, shadow as one of them without losing too much of something else.

Am I on the right path, and/or what other positionals/races would be most useful against both bash/dash. (gobos, snots, halflings doesnt count Smile )


https://fumbbl.com/p/player?op=view&player_id=10803416

He was super fun and cool.

I would say there are still way more pertinent skills for a Saurus to take over shadowing unless somehow, some way, he was an MA8 one and even then I think I'd take Block Tackle and Break Tackle to round him out.
flamebreak



Joined: Jun 22, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 18:46 Reply with quote Back to top

My tabletop league War Dancer is Ag5, Tackle, Side Step, Fend, Shadowing and she wreaks havok on opponent's backfield. Combined with a kicker to keep the ball towards their end zone, it really changes how teams need to play on offense.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

shadowing is bloodbowl's best kept secret. It is one of the most powerful skills in the game.

Not only does it tie down players and eat their 4 minutes, but it potentially helps you get into better position for your next turn, effectively giving you more blocks, seal up holes in your defense, put you in scoring position, or position to blitz the ball carrier. Furthermore it has great synergy with other skills so it's a nice skill for high spp players. I recommend it for any player with minimum 6 movement.

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