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Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I've acquired some Nurgle daemon models, so might modify them into a Daemons of Nurgle team (which is a Tier 2 roster from the Fumbbl Secret League).

I wonder if any of you have any sage advice on how you would develop this slow AG1/2 team into one that has decent chance of scoring? I expect to develop them over many games.

The roster is the one at https://fumbbl.com/help:NurgleDt . I've also put it here in case that link above doesn't open: https://imgur.com/JYXla4G

My main thoughts are:
- I don't really want Nurglings to do the scoring, as increasing their TV is bloat and they are worse at dodging/ball-handling even than Snotlings/Grots. Though I appreciate the team is so bad at scoring that I should probably take any scoring opportunities I get.
- Putting Sure Hands and Break Tackle on a Plaque Bearer would turn it into an almost-reasonable ball carrier. But it'd still be quite easy to block, and cost 160k TV on someone who you'd be trying to keep out of the fight when it had the ball. Expensive for someone who's still really easy to slow down.
- The Great Unclean One has Monstrous Mouth (the skill that gives a reroll for Catch, receive Hand-Off and Intercept, and immunity to Strip Ball). So, with Break Tackle too, could actually slowly drag the ball up the field reliably. I guess someone would have to get the ball first and hand off to him.
- If I rolled a double, ludicrously consider giving Sure Feet to the Great Unclean One? Dodge on a Plaguebearer?
- My team would only have 2 or 3 team rerolls (probably 2). So fancy combinations will be really difficult.
- Having Foul Appearance on every player should make my cages harder to penetrate.
- Maybe I should just focus solely on increasing my combat skills and try to win by whittling-down the opposing team until I can score.
- I guess I often need to throw Nurglings at groups of opposing players when the Great Unclean One doesn't have something better to do.
- If opponents get Claw, I'm in trouble! Another reason why combat skills (Block on Plaguebearers etc) are a bit of a priority, as I see Claw blitzers a lot in my leagues.

Thanks for any help!
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I think I would take block first on the plaguebearers until something got +ag. If you get a second skill on a plaguebearer before that happens, take sure hands. Everything else would be aimed at bashing with guard and mighty blow as priorities.

but that is just my opinion.
Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 16:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
I think I would take block first on the plaguebearers until something got +ag. If you get a second skill on a plaguebearer before that happens, take sure hands. Everything else would be aimed at bashing with guard and mighty blow as priorities.


I've got a feeling you're right. The team is very unreliable, with few rerolls, no Block and risky dodges (Nurglings fail their first dodge 1-in-9 times even with Dodge - so are not like Snotlings). So I can imagine frustrating premature turnovers unless I load up on Block.

Any other views? All appreciated.
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 16:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I got a fat demons of nurgle team:

- Carrying with nurglings is fine, as long as the opponent doesnt have a leaper or ag5. Or even ag4 is very dangerous, but you can cage up somehow. As soon as a nurgling skills up, you see if he gets dirty player or sidestep/diving tackle. Don't worry, i have never had a skill stack on a nurgling without an ag boost. My ag3 nurgling helps a lot, but i also have an ag3 demon, so, they share the ball duty.
- Only put sure hands on a demon who already has ag3. All fat pixels on your team should try to kill the opposition and get the adecuate skills for it - if you fail to smash the other team, game is very tough anyway.
- The Great Unclean One is not a ball handling option. Wink Too slow. Too unreliable.
- Doubles: Demons get dodge or diving tackle. Great unclean one gets dodge. Nurglings get dp.
- Rerolls: The start of the team is very slow and tough. Try to get to 3, better 4 rerolls as fast as possible. Don't mind playing with loners in order to buy the rerolls. They will smash your nurglings and it doesn't matter if you can replace them or not. Rerolls matter.
- "Having Foul Appearance on every player should make my cages harder to penetrate." Yes, sometimes. But sometimes they seem to have taken nice showers. So, never trust in this to happen.
- "Maybe I should just focus solely on increasing my combat skills and try to win by whittling-down the opposing team until I can score." YES. That's why you play this team. Just like Khemri or something.
- No, don't throw nurglings around. Well, every now and then, may be fun. But usually you just stick the fat unclean one on the LOS. Defense and offense alike. And there he has some work to do until the opposing LOS is no more or everybody runs too far away - which is hard, because you start in the center. Every drive.
- Clawmb is always nasty - but we got FA and regeneration, remember? So, best thing you can do is gut in their face, get some hits yourself, have a dp nurgling lurking behind the line and pray for a bit of FA.

I hope that helps. Do you want to play? pm me.
Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 17:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks.

I wish I could start with more than 2 team rerolls. I can't if I want the Great Unclean One and 4+ Plaguebearers at 1000TV.

In our league we use the rules where you can get robbed of some money when you retain 100k or more in the treasury. It could make trying to save for the Great Unclean One later very expensive. So I want to include him from the start.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 22, 2019 - 20:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I play Daemons of Nurgle in BIBBL and worked through some problems as I went. Basically you have 2 options on starting - go for the Great Unclean One which will mean 2 RR, or take the max Plaguebearers and get one more RR. I went for more RR and the start was quite difficult and took some time to get the GUO, but I think it would of been difficult the other way too.

Because BIBBL is at the moment a bit more bash heavy I opted to make the team better at what they do best, which is defense and aimed for Block/Guard on the Plaguebearers to maximize throwing 3D blocks on offense and guard lock on defense. A few rolled doubles and I took dodge and aimed to score with those while waiting for a +AG on a plaguebearer. The Nurglings I won't put any MVP on until the core is well skilled, but at high TV I think a few can be skilled.

Most of the losses for the team come when the Nurglings are removed quickly (Strength 1 gonna happen) and you end up severely outnumbered and getting based so having a plaguebearer or two with break tackle is needed - otherwise you'll have to get good at chain-pushing one free. Scoring with MA5/AG2 isn't easy, but it's quite fun to get creative with them and challenge your coaching.

It took us 16 matches to be able to buy the GUO (a few unlucky Plaguebearer deaths, etc.) but now that he's on the roster(with guard) I can now setup on defense (they like kicking a lot) quite a bit more aggressively and put the GUO on the line. This has seen the team get more wins lately than at the start and I feel they're starting to get quite fun. I knew when I started them that they are one that needs to get to high TV to start getting good, so don't expect them to shine right away.

You can see some ideas I have for skilling them in their bios, and check the replays if you like.

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MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 07:53 Reply with quote Back to top

That's right. Don't start with the great unclean one. Doesn't matter the ruleset. He won't pull his weight from game 1 and without support. Go 3 rerolls and make sure you have everything else, before you get the fattie. Really, don't worry about the big guy. If you wanted to worry about such stuff, you would play something more competetive. Just focus on building your core up. Whenever the fattie arrives, he is a bonus in the middle of the field. And that's it. Your game won't change all that much. When i got my fattie he got killed in one of the following matches, a first turn foul. No reg. Now imagine such a money grave to start the season...

And do the mvp-ing like Rbthma says: Just get your plague demons fatter. You need a similar skill combo as saurus on a lizard team. 1-2 early break tackle. 1 frenzy killer. etc.
Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 09:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for all this. In that case, this looks like the wisest starting team. Then get a couple of Nurglings extra in reserve after the first games, then save up for the sixth Plaguebearer, then finally the Great Unclean One. A long haul. The Rerolls are expensive but I can't think of a team that needs them more than Daemons of Nurgle:

5 x Plaguebearers - 600k
6 x Nurglings - 120k
4 x Team Rerolls - 280k
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 14:56 Reply with quote Back to top

when the daemons lost their 3ag, they became unplayable.

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Hail to Dread Scott! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by the Charlestοwn Cheifs
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 16:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree. They have their own strengths, and some pretty unique tricks. Ag2 with Sure hands is fine, and St 4 with break tackle suddenly makes them mobile. They are intentionally below Tier 1 though. That is by design.

Guard hasn't been discussed much here either. personally I like having it on every player. Mass guard 7 St4 + players is very nice for locking teams down. But in the short term other skills are needed more quickly.

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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
when the daemons lost their 3ag, they became unplayable.


Disagree on unplayable. AG2 is no picnic for ball handling for sure, so expect to be disappointed on occasion even if it's not raining.

Garion wrote:
Guard hasn't been discussed much here either. personally I like having it on every player. Mass guard 7 St4 + players is very nice for locking teams down. But in the short term other skills are needed more quickly.


This was the plan for mine. I realized quickly that guard on the nurglings just wasn't enough as they get removed quite easily. I've settled on having probably 4 plaguebearers with guard, and the other 2 going more offensively skilled as I like the idea of 2 Block/Guard/Stand Firm for both wide zones on defense, with the GUO covering the middle/LoS.

Note to the OP: don't forget about disturbing presence, as your opponents quite often will. On defence, force your opponent into a spot where they have to hand-off or pass and make sure to have plaguebearers at those points. -1 to pass/catch/intercept, within 3 squares and yes it stacks.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 18:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
I disagree. They have their own strengths, and some pretty unique tricks. Ag2 with Sure hands is fine, and St 4 with break tackle suddenly makes them mobile. They are intentionally below Tier 1 though. That is by design.

Guard hasn't been discussed much here either. personally I like having it on every player. Mass guard 7 St4 + players is very nice for locking teams down. But in the short term other skills are needed more quickly.


none of the players have sure hands or break tackle so that statement is invalid.

At a minimum a bloodbowl team needs a ball carrier with 3ag or 2ag with sure hands. Add to that the low movement, and the only way to win games is to heavily cherry pick.

hence why it's SL's least popular daemon team

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Sure they dont start with those skills. But sure hands is a first pick on 1 and break tackle often 2nd pick. So it doesn't take long especially now you pick mvp

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 19:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
and the only way to win games is to heavily cherry pick.


Sorry Ark, but thats nonsense. People also use this team in leagues and win games, and I've seen them win many games in SLO vs higher tier team. Again - they aren't meant to be top tier, this is intentional. So it should be a bit more tricky than using a tier 1 team. For me that's the fun of using a lower tier team. But to say the only way to win games is to heavily cherry pick is OTT really.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 19:39 Reply with quote Back to top

It been a long time since I've seen them on gamefinder Garion. Can't say the same for the other three teams.

Furthermore, there are no reg. bloodbowl teams with all 2ag and no sure hands for a reason.

the sad thing here is, you actually had it right the first time...then broke em on a whim.

So now they get picked over for their Khorne and Slaneesh versions. and to a lesser extent, Tzeentch.

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Hail to Dread Scott! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by the Charlestοwn Cheifs
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