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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 11:11 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Genuinely amused by the usual "barely play in/don't play in" box crowd either shooting down ideas or coming up with ridiculous premises when the chances of them actually activating don't increase with anything Christer might do.


Indeed. It is astonishing that people who may have run hundreds of leagues may have an interest in the running of a league.

A lot of the effort put into the site is done by people who don't actually play very much. Maybe, because they can't play very much.

If you want to know why people don't play, I think it is worth asking people who don't play,

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
... As I said, the majority of NA coaches appear to prefer R/L (overwhelmingly L from what I've seen in my years on the site). Whether this is a testament to the strength of the NA league scene, an unwillingness to play in the box, the lure of a guaranteed (scheduled) game that is comfortably enough for the night, or other reasons, doesn't really matter - the numbers are there most nights, they simply don't participate.


League is not only about scheduled games. People can also arrange open games within that community.

That greatly reduces the chances of getting an opponent who is silent, sullen or a complete arse.
The big advantage of Ranked and Box is the opportunity to get a game quickly.

For me, it makes sense to try league first. If I can't find a game there, then I might try R or B. But I suppose, mostly, I might not.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 14:12 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
Here's a new idea for you koadah that would really revitalize the NA Box:

A box-only major that is just for the NA timezone.

Ok, pre-empting you saying that wouldn't be fair to non-NA players: do a box-only major where the qualifiers are restricted to certain timezones and then the finals are combined, FIFA World Cup style. That hasn't been tried before, has it?


Box only Majors have been tried before.
Regional qualifiers have been tried before, though not (I believe) in Box Majors.

So, you could argue that it is a new idea though it looks a lot like two old ones merged together. Wink

So, the question is why did we stop doing regional qualifiers?
I'm only guessing but it may have been "not enough coaches". That was back when we had a lot more coaches than we have now.

It is a good idea whether it is new or not. Wink
You might want to ask for a regional Minor as well as those are more accessible for the less active coaches so may actually energise more people that a Major.


When were regional qualifiers tried for a Major? I don't remember that and I've been on here since 2009. If it was before that, then it must have been before the Box even existed.

Regional minors - good idea. People have been trying to do NA-timezone instant Smacks to try to kick some life into the timezone. They're good when they happen, but it's not easy to round up 8 coaches for two back-to-back games on the same evening.

BUT .. what about Box-only, NA-only Scheduled Smacks? That would be like doing an 8-player Box activation that people don't even have to be online at the same time for. And the winner gets a shiny prize. What can go wrong?

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Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

How does the rookie protection work exactly?

cos we have a 4 games old wood elf team facing the smallkosp right now
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 14:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Chivite wrote:
How does the rookie protection work exactly?

cos we have a 4 games old wood elf team facing the smallkosp right now


The woodies can play within 15% of their total tv due to being 4 games old. Smallkosp is within that bracket.

The scheduler applies a massive malus on the suitability score due to the age of the teams involved, so that if any other matchup can be made, it will.

In this case, it's a 4 man draw, and that game is the only way 2 matches get drawn, so despite a suitability @276, the draw is made.

I don't think we'll see a thread from Smallman complaining about it though Wink

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Last edited by ArrestedDevelopment on Jul 15, 2019 - 14:24; edited 1 time in total
Bazakastine



Joined: Mar 21, 2014

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to send your box team to a tournament you can send them to a bar brawl or an instant smack. Adding more small tournaments will only serve to split the player base more.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 15:24 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:

When were regional qualifiers tried for a Major? I don't remember that and I've been on here since 2009. If it was before that, then it must have been before the Box even existed.


As I said earlier. "We've been at this a long time". Wink
I'm pretty sure it was before Box was created.

JellyBelly wrote:

Regional minors - good idea. People have been trying to do NA-timezone instant Smacks to try to kick some life into the timezone. They're good when they happen, but it's not easy to round up 8 coaches for two back-to-back games on the same evening.


In League, we have tried 4 team SLAMs. They have faded out now but were more realistic for us than 8 team instant SMACKs.

JellyBelly wrote:

BUT .. what about Box-only, NA-only Scheduled Smacks? That would be like doing an 8-player Box activation that people don't even have to be online at the same time for. And the winner gets a shiny prize. What can go wrong?


IMO the problem with some of these ideas is that they sound kinda "Leaguie". Your mission, should you accept it, is to get them past the Tournament Co-ordinator. Wink

Bazakastine wrote:
If you want to send your box team to a tournament you can send them to a bar brawl or an instant smack. Adding more small tournaments will only serve to split the player base more.


IMO, in this case, splitting the user base is a good thing. For many people, fear of drawing someone on a very different timezone is a big disincentive to joining a tournament.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 15:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Bazakastine wrote:
If you want to send your box team to a tournament you can send them to a bar brawl or an instant smack. Adding more small tournaments will only serve to split the player base more.


A big problem for me with entering my Box teams into a Bar Brawl that is open to all timezones is scheduling. The same reason that I don't enter Majors any more - scheduling against Eurozone coaches is too inconvenient.

If there were regional, America-only Bar Brawls, I would give them a try.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
IMO, in this case, splitting the user base is a good thing. For many people, fear of drawing someone on a very different timezone is a big disincentive to joining a tournament.


Touch wood! Yes, for me, scheduling is by far the biggest hurdle stopping me from entering more official tournaments.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 15:46 Reply with quote Back to top

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the scheduling difficulties link into why American TZ players tend to favor L over R or B. Because, when 90% of FUMBBL players are based in Europe, official R/B tournaments are difficult to enter for us.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 16:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey JellyBelly, could you maybe just Edit a post to include your next thought instead of making endless posts on the topic?
bancobat



Joined: Aug 25, 2013

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 16:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Just a thought and I know it will deal with a lot of changes but is a lineup scheduler not thinkable for the box ?
I activate a team and as soon as a coach activate a matchable team, we are drawn
It will remove 2 of the main frustrations of the actual scheduler : the 15 mn waiting and the no draw if less than 4 players
It will permits in theory to have more teams activated with a more restriction on the match ups
Like i activate 1 team, if not drawn, I can activate more to increase my chances to go up in the line up
To keep the « 2 coaches choose their game » it can have a coaches heads up limitation (but frankly even now it is not really difficult to arrange a game, as there are not enough coaches activating most of the time)

It will surely provide new bad consequences but is the idea worth a shot ?
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 17:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Chivite wrote:
Hey JellyBelly, could you maybe just Edit a post to include your next thought instead of making endless posts on the topic?


Is there a world shortage of forum posts now? Wink

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 17:25 Reply with quote Back to top

bancobat: for american tz coaches the good thing about the box is, that you don't have to schedule (with a euro coach, uggghhh!!) and can play right away. If it fires, that is, of course.
So, you would eliminate the best feature the box has, in my eyes.

But i think, you are on to something. Maybe this shouldn't replace box, but we could just let box and ranked teams do this. Just click on the teams you want to send to the lineup scheduler of the vanilla box - or think of any more suitable name - and see, against who it will get drawn. As long as it doesn't get drawn, you can cancel the teams.
Maybe you could allow certain customization, like, preferably being drawn against NA coaches, etc.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 17:35 Reply with quote Back to top

bancobat wrote:
Just a thought and I know it will deal with a lot of changes but is a lineup scheduler not thinkable for the box ?
I activate a team and as soon as a coach activate a matchable team, we are drawn
It will remove 2 of the main frustrations of the actual scheduler : the 15 mn waiting and the no draw if less than 4 players
It will permits in theory to have more teams activated with a more restriction on the match ups
Like i activate 1 team, if not drawn, I can activate more to increase my chances to go up in the line up
To keep the « 2 coaches choose their game » it can have a coaches heads up limitation (but frankly even now it is not really difficult to arrange a game, as there are not enough coaches activating most of the time)

It will surely provide new bad consequences but is the idea worth a shot ?


Nope. This will not be implemented due to fear of match fixing. This is why there must be 4 teams in a draw.

The pool also gives the chance of better matches so hopefully fewer people quitting.

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smallman



Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Rookie protection would work much better if activation times were reduced to 30 mins or an hour. Quality draws with more players, benefits everyone. Surely noones life is so empty that they cant find something else to do with their time until the next activation.
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