ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Jul 13, 2019 - 03:25 |
 
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | I really wouldn't worry about a one million TV inducements gap when you've never had a team last longer than fifteen games in box. You've got to be a pretty old team first, or 15+ and massive TV to even see 300+ Tv gaps. Not a dig at you Ph0eyx13, just trying to stop a thread like this scaremongering. |
I had a human team who played 16 box games |
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Bobs
Joined: Feb 26, 2009
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Jul 13, 2019 - 03:27 |
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The scheduler was altered BECAUSE of you and others of similar ilk. What makes you think it will be changed FOR you ?
I would feel good if there was a minmaxer biased bad matchup clause in scheduler. |
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si non modo numquam pragmaticam
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Jul 13, 2019 - 05:54 |
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Christer said:
"..it can certainly be hard to rebuild after a streak of a couple of bloody games in a row. That's tough, but is sort of the whole point of the Blackbox division in my mind. Blackbox is about coming up with a team build that can be sustained over time, even in the rough environment that it is. This is to me the challenge of getting a high CR in B as opposed to the opponent selection component that R has."
So there it is. The creator of the Black Box division once again gives us his view of 'the point' of the Black Box division. So there is no real point in hearing smallman's idea of what Black Box should be, or MattDakka's idea of the division's purpose, or Murker's view of 'the point.'
Now, if someone's personal 'goal' for Black Box was to run their own personal CR number up as high as possible, making themselves look (numerically) far better than they actually were, then I think perpetually cycling undead and/or amazon teams though their first 15 games would be the way to go. That would be going against THE point of the division, but some people will go for wins and inflated numbers, for various reasons.
smallman's predatory style of min/maxing, although still great for smashing those who are unaware or unprepared, now has the fun element of backfiring, and being punished every so often. This is entirely intentional, and is firmly in line with BigC's 'point' of the division.
So, suck it up, little claw lover, or learn to play undead. Or, you know, just scare us all away with your dirty players. |
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MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
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Jul 13, 2019 - 06:31 |
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| The_Murker wrote: | | So there is no real point in hearing smallman's idea of what Black Box should be, or MattDakka's idea of the division's purpose, or Murker's view of 'the point.' |
Your post is pointless. Christer just heard everybody (read everybody's opinions here) and answered.
If your definition of "hearing" goes beyond that, i must wonder, what else is there to your "hearing"? If i don't fulfill your wishes, i am not hearing you? If i don't tell you, that you win the argument and you are right in every single point, it doesn't qualify as hearing? You must come from a remote and disconnected culture, where hearing has a different meaning than for the rest of the world - or you are just personally not feeling that anybody was being heared and express yourself in a very emotionally rich way, but with poor choice of words. |
Last edited by MenonaLoco on %b %14, %2019 - %06:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Jul 13, 2019 - 07:30 |
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Sorry if you didn't heared my points the first time you readed them. I was less than clear, perhaps. The main purpose of my post was to bookmark Christer's answer as to the 'point' of the Black Box division, so I can reference it in the future if these box scheduler threads come up again. Following that reply, no one else's vision for what the Box could/should be really matters, which is quite fine. (although not new info, iirc, the death of the racial modifier is also particularly interesting)
Maybe it didn't read pro-Christer enough for you, or perhaps wasn't 'down with smallman' enough to catch my meaning.
To be clear, I'm very pro-Christer, I understand why the large TV gaps exist, I wish smallman would cease with teams designed to destroy others, and find it amusing he threatens other coaches with the Dirty Player skill.
I also tried to speculate that cycling fresh undead or zon teams would be a better way for smallman or anyone else to win max games, while pointing out how that would run contrary to Christer's vision for why Box was created.
I'm certain you would have hit the forum 'time-out button' on me long ago, so I'll stop there. This response took 4 minutes to type, I assure you. Happy timing out. |
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Join the wait-list. Watch the action. Leave the Empire. Come to Bretonnia! |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 13, 2019 - 08:04 |
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| ph0enyx13 wrote: | | ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | I really wouldn't worry about a one million TV inducements gap when you've never had a team last longer than fifteen games in box. You've got to be a pretty old team first, or 15+ and massive TV to even see 300+ Tv gaps. Not a dig at you Ph0eyx13, just trying to stop a thread like this scaremongering. |
I had a human team who played 16 box games |
Cool! i actually played vs them many moons ago...
fair enough. at their final point they could've played a gap of 500k or so. But much more likely you ran into smallkosp tbh! |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 13, 2019 - 08:08 |
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| The_Murker wrote: | | Sorry if you didn't heared my points the first time you readed them. |
We are making fun of non-native speakers now? Hast Du einen Vogel? |
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Amon242
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 13, 2019 - 08:26 |
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Murker is on point - goblin up and activate in box |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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Jul 13, 2019 - 10:12 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | We are making fun of non-native speakers now? Hast Du einen Vogel? |
Perhaps we have to consider the fact that native speakers with low literacy are sometimes considered fair game in certain circles, especially online, so there is a bit of dissonance when we condemn mockery of non-native speakers' errors.
Going around with a red pen "correcting" people, whatever their first language, should be generally frowned upon; it can come off as rude unless done with a lot of caveats in mind.
On the matter at hand, long live the scheduler, if your team has 30+ games you should expect monster opponents. I'm much more worried about the fact that the RNG is unaware that when rerolling a 1, the new result is not supposed to be a 1 in any circumstance. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 13, 2019 - 10:41 |
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| Java wrote: | | ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | We are making fun of non-native speakers now? Hast Du einen Vogel? |
Perhaps we have to consider the fact that native speakers with low literacy are sometimes considered fair game in certain circles, especially online, so there is a bit of dissonance when we condemn mockery of non-native speakers' errors.
Going around with a red pen "correcting" people, whatever their first language, should be generally frowned upon; it can come off as rude unless done with a lot of caveats in mind.
On the matter at hand, long live the scheduler, if your team has 30+ games you should expect monster opponents. I'm much more worried about the fact that the RNG is unaware that when rerolling a 1, the new result is not supposed to be a 1 in any circumstance. |
Indeed. And yet people wonder why forums participation is limited. There are a large contingent of coaches who never participate in forum threads, nor chat much in game because they do not trust their English to convey their true thoughts. Plenty of them play box.
By mocking one who does make the effort to participate in discussion, we simply confirm to the rest that the effort is neither worthwhile, nor appreciated.
It is simply petty, bordering on xenophobic, bullying. And does no party any favours. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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To be clear here, the Blackbox division wasn't initially my idea. I don't remember who at this point, but someone went ahead and created an IRC bot that had a version of a blackbox which became popular enough that I figured there was merit to the idea; thus the native support.
My opinion on "the point" of the division isn't something that either is, or has been, set in stone at any point. It's simply what I have grown into.
Another thing I'd like to clarify here is that I read an absolute majority of forum posts, and certainly follow any thread that goes on for multiple pages like this one. Sometimes, I'll admit, it's hard to not get super defensive and react instinctively but I do try to find a core of actual feedback in threads like this.
In this thread, smallman got paired against a very much stronger team and feels that the system is unfair, and asked why his other, higher TV, team wasn't paired instead. Now, while he expressed himself in a relatively "aggressive" and entitled way the core point of his post is perfectly valid. Thus I felt it was warranted to sit down and compose a lengthy reply. And the fact is that the scheduler could absolutely do with giving more information about why a draw was made the way it was.
As for minmaxing low TV, I'll once again say that it's not against the rules. It was also very much a reasonable strategy in an earlier iteration of the formula, despite the effect it had on discouraging new teams from joining. Mind you, the latter *is* a problem which is why the formula was changed to reduce the efficacy of this particular way of playing. People like smallman who have a habit of playing these low to mid teams indefinitely simply needs to either accept these huge TV gaps or build their teams up to high TV where the meta currently is for old teams.
As an aside, anyone who tells me "X is the best answer" is probably biased and probably doesn't understand why things are the way they are. "X" might be the best *for you*, but it rarely is the best for the site as a whole. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 13, 2019 - 11:53 |
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Just for fun btw:
| Code: |
Wood Elf 105 81 5 19 79.52 1.3 3.47 21 5 2402.38 2096.38 |
They might not stay there a long time, but if you get woodies above 2m tv... they win.
columns are: 105 played, 81 wins, 5 ties, 19 losses, 79.52%Win home cas per game, away cas per game, teams, games per team, home tv, away tv |
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Last edited by ArrestedDevelopment on %b %13, %2019 - %12:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jul 13, 2019 - 11:59 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | Just for fun btw:
| Code: |
Wood Elf 105 81 5 19 79.52 1.3 3.47 21 5 2402.38 2096.38 |
They might not stay there a long time, but if you get woodies above 2m tv... they win. |
I don't get it  |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jul 13, 2019 - 13:51 |
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I'll leave this here, because funny. Only game I've ever played against him (T16 was particularly amusing)  |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
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smallman
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
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Jul 13, 2019 - 14:55 |
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Appreciate the explanation. Sounds like the TV amplification is too strong, but will rarely cause such issues.
I have been trying to get my smallkosp team to around 2mil tv for as long as I can remember, and my about page shows my dream pact team. Its mostly the huge TV gap games that beat me back down, and make it more likely that I face lower TV opponents, which just causes more grief. I only ever retire injuries and big guys that don't get double by 2nd skill. 70k for a reroll is just bad value.
I am fully aware that I am infamous for destroying teams, and chatting very little in games. I have zero interest in complete strangers. Given this, I know its a waste of time trying to get anything changed in my interest, which is why I only post ideas that will benefit all.
Bloodbowl is awesome fun, and fumbbl is extremely impressive all round, but I feel bad for the people that can only play games in offpeak, but can never get a game. I bet this is why we lose the most members. Maybe a sticky forum poll would be good that people can respond to when they leave FUMBBL to get a better idea of why. I'd also be curious how many of the 96 activation periods per day have 2 games drawn or less. Pretty sure this would be atleast 9/10. |
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