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Best Post Apocalyptic flop?
Waterworld
34%
 34%  [ 64 ]
Salute of the Jugger (called The Blood of heroes in some regions)
16%
 16%  [ 30 ]
The Postman
13%
 13%  [ 25 ]
Dredd (not the sly stallone one)
24%
 24%  [ 46 ]
Deathrace 2000
6%
 6%  [ 12 ]
Deathsport
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Cyborg
3%
 3%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 186


Niessuh



Joined: Dec 11, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top

even elf teams gain more SPP from casualties than from passing currently
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 14:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Carrying with a good thrower certainly looks important for optionality. Which means new players will still be tempted by the passing game.

Hand offs still work! I think.
So the zombie or Saurus can catch a random ball drop and then hand off later at least.

Is an ogre doing ttm still a 3+ to avoid fumble?

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Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 16:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Felix17 wrote:
I think this is one of the greatest impacts of the new passing rules, that agile players who were able to leap on a spilled ball and pass it clear are now doing so at much greater risk.

Is that really a bad thing? Jumping over prone players seems to have made it easier to get sacks in the first place, so making it harder to extract the ball might not be bad for game balance.

OTOH, a thrower seems mandatory now for long-range running game with a quick pass and hand-off in the same turn. Skaven used to do that with 3 GR, now they need a thrower in the chain. Same for elves.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Traul wrote:
(...)
OTOH, a thrower seems mandatory now for long-range running game with a quick pass and hand-off in the same turn. Skaven used to do that with 3 GR, now they need a thrower in the chain. Same for elves.


For wood elves, elf union and high elves, yes. It will be harder for dark elves. They have no thrower and their runner has PA 3+ and miss the Pass skill.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

About the DE Runner: now that I think of Dump Off, imagine failing it with a Wildly Inaccurate pass.
I would think twice before using it.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 17:00 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
About the DE Runner: now that I think of Dump Off, imagine failing it with a Wildly Inaccurate pass.
I would think twice before using it.


A runner probably need Nerves of Steel as first skill if you want a reliable Dump Off. Follow that with Wrestle and then Dodge for a decent safety on defence. You could also go with Pro skill for a chance to re-roll that Dump-off or a better chance for blocking.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Too many skills already. I can slap 3 skills on 3 different Blitzers/Witch Elves and have 3 Blodgers.
Runner maybe can be used just as Leader caddy.
That said, if I had to give a non-Leader-caddy Runner 2 skills, Blodge would be the first 2. AV 7 wants Blodge.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 17:41 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Too many skills already. I can slap 3 skills on 3 different Blitzers/Witch Elves and have 3 Blodgers.
Runner maybe can be used just as Leader caddy.
That said, if I had to give a non-Leader-caddy Runner 2 skills, Blodge would be the first 2. AV 7 wants Blodge.


Well... it really don't work like that as if you can choose where skills go or not you also miss out on the opportunity of being able to decently throw quick passes which in and of itself will generate SPP for the Runner.

You can decide to still score with your blitzers or a Witch elf.

The runner will give you options you otherwise don't really have in BB2020, that is I believe the whole point with the passing changes.

Passing seem to not only be less common but also far more dangerous now.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 17:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Even if the MVP is random in BB2020 it's easier (and better for the team) to have 3 Blitzers with Blodge than a Runner with Wrodge and NoS.
Since passing is more dangerous it's better not to invest skills on developing a passer at all, this is my impression.
The designers should have made the passing game less risky to encourage it, not the other way around.
If to have a not-so-reliable passing game I have to build a Thrower then I don't play with a Thrower at all and I develop other positionals.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Passing has always sucked since 3rd edition. As soon as the turn over rule became a thing its been sub optimal, now its just slightly worse again.

Its not that big a deal really. Carry on stalling and walking the ball in, just slightly harder to farm spp now, and slightly harder to OTT.

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stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 18:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Opportunity cost of developing a dedicated thrower doesn't appear to be worth it for a lot of teams
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 18:25 Reply with quote Back to top

stej wrote:
Opportunity cost of developing a dedicated thrower doesn't appear to be worth it for a lot of teams


On some teams it might be hit or miss but I don't think that Dark Elves is one of them. Dark Elves are a bit too slow for completely ignoring the quick pass play, so having a runner on the team should be important even now.

To be honest most players probably don't even understand how often they actually used to throw quick passes and will very quickly realise they need a good option to do so even in the future.

I have not played with any Elf team yet but I have played against them. The fact that only thrower can pass effectively will impact them quite a bit, loosing the option to pass play will hurt.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Felix17 wrote:
Nelphine wrote:
*shrug* show me a few matches where passing is how the game outcome changed. like i said, i'm sure i'll be proven wrong.


I think I'll be reluctant to pass with an Elf Blitzer/Catcher/Linelf or a Gutter Runner, most of whom I think are now 4+ or worse to pass. I think this is one of the greatest impacts of the new passing rules, that agile players who were able to leap on a spilled ball and pass it clear are now doing so at much greater risk.

I might have read your position wrong, but I think passing has really changed, and for the worse. They've tried to buff Throwers by making everyone else a lot worse.


I'm specifically talking about players who will now have a '-' for PA. Overall, I completely agree that passing is messed up very badly, but that particular detail, I don't think will actually matter.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I have to agree. According to me, the only teams which could be (a bit) annoyed by this new rule (some players unauthorized to throw because of PA "-") are Necromantic Horror teams. All their players have a "-" PA except ghouls and werewolves. But they have been globally buffed (in my opinion) in BB 2020 and, if they have no more ghouls and werewolves on the pitch, no passing won't be their number one problem. Very Happy

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 21:08 Reply with quote Back to top

The main takeaway from new necros for me it's that you can no longer pick ghoul or wolves as the positional to drop when building a roster, if money is tight

It's bad enough with 4 potential carriers
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