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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 21:32
FUMBBL Staff
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This is a companion post for my blog post on the current thinking for the BB2020 update. Please read the blog post for context and keep ideas and thoughts in this forum thread.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 21:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for sharing your thinking.
Just one question: will playing a normal team (as per definition in your blog) give CR points?
Or only playing hardcore team will give CR points?

I think even normal teams will allow to earn CR points, if I understand well.
This system seems to favour playing normal teams over hardcore ones, because a normal team can find games through GF and scheduler, while the hardcore team only through scheduler (but it can face normal teams as well).
Unless a coach is interested in the Box Trophy, playing a normal team seems more appealing.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 21:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you cover most things I care about pretty extensively.

My wish list only relates to L

* I would like spp progression to be an option in league. So we can choose between classic progression and the new system.

* The option to switch seasons off.

* The option to adjust Expensive Mistakes starting point. (or keep this option as we currently have it)

* The option for adjusting the value of stat increase for L, or again just allowing to switch between classic mode and the new system. E.g. +St 80k or +St 50k etc..

* The option to change the value of MVP (4 or 5 spp), and choose between random or select 3.

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Last edited by Garion on Aug 07, 2020 - 22:06; edited 1 time in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

At the conversion point, could we have an option to switch normal teams into hardcore? (I'm thinking particularly of teams that were started when a coach is new, and didn't know the real difference between the divisions)
I realize this normally could never happen, but at the start of a ruleset, and where old teams (I think??) are getting forced to immediately redraft anyway, seems an ideal time to allow this.
Jim_Fear



Joined: May 02, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you, Christer.

Will rankings, be it CR (or its equivalent), individual coach race/team rankings, be reset as part of the implementation? It seems like a new ruleset, the proposed revisions to the Competitive Division, the new meta of Seasons, and the release/revisions of Races/Teams would call for a fresh start. By extension, will the "Top Lists" be reset, perhaps modified to accept the changes, or will they continue to function as is?

I had made my peace with saying goodbye to any existing teams, believing they would be incompatible with the new ruleset, but I really like your ideas on migrating them over; the proposed redrafting process provides an interesting mechanic to mitigate bloat.

Lastly, so long Stunty Leeg. It was fun while it lasted.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Three thoughts

    1. This sounds great.

    2. Teams playing by gamefinder will probably be healthier than those using only the scheduler. To counteract teams being farmed in gamefinder only to be released in the scheduler, consider flipping what you outline on its head, and only let "hardcore" teams access the scheduler. Otherwise we might see a new form of scheduler sniping by farmed teams appear.

    3. How about removing CR and replacing it with the system SzieberthAdam developed off site? Only letting scheduled games and tourneys count towards the ranking.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, hardcore teams should play only vs other hardcore teams.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks a lot for explaining in details your thoughts/plans for FUMBBL, Christer.

I am personnaly very happy with your plans concerning divisions.

Concerning CR, I'm interested in your answer to MattDakka.

And I have another question : what do you plan to do concerning rosters for Hardcore and Normal teams?

Will you allow only the 22 BB2020 rosters or also rosters which are not in BB 2020 basic box but could be in BB 2020 add-ons. To be clear, even it's unofficial, let's say I'm speaking about Amazons, Chaos Dwarves, Khemri Tomb Kings, Norses and Vampires (not speaking about Brets and Khorne as they are not today played in Ranked and Black Box division + Brets are approximatly turned into Imperail Nobles + don't know if I'm speaking about Slanns/Kislev...).

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Last edited by sebco on Aug 07, 2020 - 22:14; edited 1 time in total
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:13 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Yes, hardcore teams should play only vs other hardcore teams.

I think "should" is too hard a wording at this point. But it is worth considering.

Personally I think maybe "hardcore" teams should be able to go on gamefinder with a label next to them warning potential new coaches, and not frequently playing coaches, that this team has been built through the scheduler (and might be more deadly).
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:18 Reply with quote Back to top

The idea is, if you pick games with GF, you can't use a matchmaker to find games.
In BB1 you could pick games in challenge division, farm your team, then spin in the MM division with a team which picked its opponents.
Yes, I know, seasonal redraft every 20 games will keep teams in check, but the possibility of playing say 10 games by picking with GF then playing 10 games in MM doesn't sound fair to me.

To be simpler:
you want to play with Gamefinder? Nice, do it vs other normal teams only, without gaining CR (basically, like it happens now in League division).
You want to play with scheduler? Nice, make a hardcore team (or decide that your current Ranked team will be a hardcore team from now on), play only vs other hardcore teams.
No cross-matches between normal and hardcore teams.

Current Ranked teams should choose if they want to be normal or hardcore, once they have decided, they can't change anymore.


Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 07, 2020 - 22:24; edited 2 times in total
Dutchlife



Joined: Jan 02, 2020

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea of having non-hardcore (ranked) teams in both scheduler and gamefinder. Anything that will pump up box participation in North America West time slot!

The more league tools (old rules, old teams, etc) the better without creating too much work for the devs of course.

With niggled affecting casualty table roll, more chance of SI, and seasons, TV bloat should decrease in theory?
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:22 Reply with quote Back to top

My thought is that anyone in normal or hardcore should be able to use either; but your team has certain flags by which method it uses. You want that hardcore flag? You can't have played any normal games in the last 50 games.


Last edited by Nelphine on Aug 07, 2020 - 22:29; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Who cares about the hardcore flag, the potential issue is picking games with GF then playing vs hardcore teams.
This is the real concern.
Ok, my team is hardcore, nice, too bad it can face teams which played games with Gamefinder.
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:30
FUMBBL Staff
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A couple of quick responses:

CR will remain, and I want to maintain separation between hardcore and normal teams much like it is.

League options will be there to the extent it's feasible. No promises at this point but I'll do my best.

Some of the non-rulebook rosters will very likely be in a "Teams of Legend" PDF released at the time of the rulebook. The Competitive division will support those too. This very likely means Slann are dead, because there will be no official updated roster for them. We'll see though.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2020 - 22:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Balle2000 wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Yes, hardcore teams should play only vs other hardcore teams.

I think "should" is too hard a wording at this point. But it is worth considering.

Personally I think maybe "hardcore" teams should be able to go on gamefinder with a label next to them warning potential new coaches, and not frequently playing coaches, that this team has been built through the scheduler (and might be more deadly).


Nah. I don't think that hardcore teams should be able to use gamefinder.

I think that they should have the option of only meeting hardcore teams in the scheduler or meeting any team.

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