Waagh
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
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 Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 15:20 |
 
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I agree match by games into a season +/- 1 game you'll get TV gaps but TV gaps are apart of the game. Ignoring that is the same as ignoring seasons IMO. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 17:32 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | not implying Java monoactivated, he didn't |
I basically did. I'm enjoying OWA so much that I activate OWA and one or two other teams. Sometimes just OWA.
Monoactivating isn't the problem. It's allowed. What's not supposed to happen, at least to the letter of bb16 rules, is mega teams with tons of bloat.
A TV gap of 100 is not a problem. You can take 2 beers or an apo. That should offset the grind.
I look forward to (or dread, accordingly) games where the gap allows a wizard.
What's the cutoff for an acceptable TV gap in your opinion? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 17:46 |
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Let's add a scheduler option so I can avoid TV gaps of 100 or higher.
TV gap-lovers can play them, but since I don't like them because they can have correlation with losing the game I prefer to avoid them. Any potential unbalancing factor should be avoided in competitive MM.
Maybe the TV gap is not a problem, maybe it is, just to be safe, I prefer to have no TV gaps if possible (50 TV gap of lower is ok, but higher than 50 is already annoying for a non-tier 3 team).
I activate 11 teams and more sometimes and I should not be paired with big TV gaps, I'd rather to miss the draw if I have to play a TV gap (either as underdog or overdog).
100 TV is 5 skills, I don't want an Apo or 2 Babes: either a balanced match (i.e. TV gap of 50 or lower) or no match at all, that's what I want.
TV gaps are for Majors, not for the Box.
Anyway, if people want to play with TV gaps, good for them, I don't want them, an option affecting only me would be ok (with a tick box or something like that). |
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Waagh
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 17:59 |
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The game isn't fair or balanced it doesn't pretend to be or try to be. If the goal is to have the open league be as true to the rule book as possible then TV gaps are just apart of it. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 18:02 |
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Ok, then let's use a total random scheduler not considering any factor (TV, games played, season etc.).
Let's see how many people will play it in the long run.
If people stop playing, we could assume that TV gaps are not popular.
Remember that a goal of the game is that people should have fun.
TV gaps are not fun if you care about a balanced match and not just rolling dice.
1 hour of time is precious and should not be wasted in an uphill (or downhill) game where the TV difference plays a big role.
If you like it, good for you, but I don't, so I should not play a TV gap.
We both should agree about how the match is arranged. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 18:15 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Let's add a scheduler option so I can avoid TV gaps of 100 or higher. |
Try to build one.
Srsly. Pairing is not easy.
C's box is already pretty good. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 18:17 |
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Box is pretty good, I agree with that.
It could be improved, though, but it won't happen, as usual. |
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AzraelEVA
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 18:20 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Any potential unbalancing factor should be avoided in competitive MM. |
So skaven only plays vs skaven, lizardmen vs lizardmen... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 18:22 |
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Mirror matches, to be honest, are generally more unbalanced than non-mirror matches.
Also, mirror matches are not really mirror, because a team could have for example a stat freak and the other one not.
Imagine 2 Dwarf teams, one of them with MA 8 AG 4 Runner, the other one with normal Runner.
Or Skaven vs Skaven, 1 team with natural one turner, the other Skaven team without natural one turner, or one of them with MB Tackle Blitzer and the other one with Guard and MB Blitzer and no Tackle. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 18:34 |
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| Java wrote: | | What's the cutoff for an acceptable TV gap in your opinion? |
Morg.
430k.
Basically, if you over time cannot access all the inducements of the game, something is wrong. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 18:35 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | It could be improved, though, but it won't happen, as usual. |
You're not listening, Matt.
I'm not saying it can't be done.
I'm saying you should try to build one.
I'm not saying that you can't come up with an improvement.
I'm only saying that pairing problems are hard.
You know, feature requests can become so vexatious that it ruins everything.
After all these years, has it ever occurred to you that you could try to scratch your own itch?
At the very least you will come to appreciate aspects of the problem that escaped you before you tried.
That'd be progress.
There's no incentive to discuss these aspects with you, for you're not listening.
Try it.
You don't even need to code to try. A bunch of index cards would do.
First, get your system to work. Then try to break it.
See how it goes. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 18:41 |
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I suggested an option with a tick box selecting the TV gap you don't want.
It could be 50 or lower, 100 or lower, or alternatively a % , for example, an option with max TV gap 15% of your TV.
If that is impossible, then 430 (the price of Morg) would still be better than no TV gap cap at all. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Sep 10, 2020 - 18:46 |
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See, Matt?
I'm telling you - you're not listening.
Whether or not it works does not matter much at this point.
What matters is if *you* can make it work or not.
If it works, you'll see the consequences.
If it does not, you'll see why.
Try it.
Report. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2020 - 18:54 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Mirror matches, to be honest, are generally more unbalanced than non-mirror matches.
Also, mirror matches are not really mirror, because a team could have for example a stat freak and the other one not.
Imagine 2 Dwarf teams, one of them with MA 8 AG 4 Runner, the other one with normal Runner.
Or Skaven vs Skaven, 1 team with natural one turner, the other Skaven team without natural one turner, or one of them with MB Tackle Blitzer and the other one with Guard and MB Blitzer and no Tackle. |
Wont happen with the new skill selection.
And btw , if your goal in playing BB , is to have balanced games , and competitive BB, whhy you dont just play NAF ?
No tv gaps, no monster freaks, balanced match up, huge competitive tourneys online and irl, world champ etc ?
^^ |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 10, 2020 - 19:07 |
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I don't find NAF balanced at all. Some rosters are top tier 1 (and mostly played), other ones are too weak.
Some tournaments buff certain races with extra skills and Star Players, but that is not true balance.
The true balance would be remaking all the rosters from scratch and balance them for 1100 TV range. NAF bonuses can't make up for the fact that some rosters start top tier 1, other ones tier 2, and other ones tier 3.
You can bolt on skills and Star Players, but it's not effective enough.
If you have a race car (top tier 1) competing vs a city car (tier 2) improving a bit the engine of the city car (adding extra skills and Star Players) will not be enough to balance them.
The starting chassis (roster) is very important for balance. |
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