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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 16:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Roster info: https://fumbbl.com/help:BB20BlackOrcSetUp

Black Orcs have Grab spam and troll and goblins
So they will be good at pulling players in for a gang foul

Also
The grab spam could be used during TTM to push a goblin with the ball, further down the field, so a troll has to throw him less distance, which may make it easier to score that way

Also,
Black Orcs themselves already have 2 Strength skills, and they can't take Strong Arm without TTM
So the pool of skills in the Strength category is only 9 they can pick
They don't need Block as much because Brawler mitigates it

And of those 9 skills, most are good/mediocre, none are really bad

So they're good candidates to only take Random Primary skills, 6 strength skills for 60tv after 46spp, is a bit of a bargain. Possibly +AV in there as well

Thoughts?

They're tier2 but I think possibly better than tier1 Lizards, particularly at low tv, although they are a lot slower
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 16:27 Reply with quote Back to top

yup spot on assessment, matches my own. Don't forget that Goblins have Thick Skull, so are perfect for the Defence Skill which means people can't used Guard against your wall of St4. And also Sneaky Git is now a 1 in 6 chance of sending off.... Also the team get cheap bribes like goblins

Black Orcs are certainly not tier 2, they may be among the best races in the game. Though lacking high Ma is always a drawback and is the only thing they need to manage.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to buy a +Stat (to get the 14 in 16 chance of +AV for 10k TV) how much SPP does it cost compared to buying a Random Primary skill?


Advancements are:
3 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 15 spp to buy a random Primary skill
6 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20 / 30 spp to buy a random Secondary skill, or choose a Primary
12 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 / 40 spp to choose a Secondary skill
18 / 20 / 24 / 28 / 32 / 50 spp to buy a random +Stat

So compared to a Random Primary, the SPP cost of a Stat is:
1st advancement: +15
2nd advancement: +16
3rd advancement: +18
4th advancement: +20
5th advancement: +22
6th advancement: +35

So, not much difference for *when* you buy +AV, apart from for the final Legend skill


Last edited by Sp00keh on Aug 11, 2020 - 16:49; edited 1 time in total
luxyluxo



Joined: Nov 26, 2012

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 16:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Brawler skill ?
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 16:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea
I could see buying Random Primaries for the whole roster actually (plus +AV on troll and orcs)

Brawler means they can reroll one block dice if it was Both Down. Not on Blitz
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 17:20 Reply with quote Back to top

also worth noting is leap doesnt work again cages anymore, and the Bobs have grab so SS elves are irrelevant.

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 17:59
FUMBBL Staff
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I think they’re a cool roster and can’t wait to try them. I think you’re perhaps slightly overselling them for a couple of reasons, but that’s subjective.

1) Movement is such an important part of the game. Even comparing them to the SL Big Un roster there’s a big difference between your cage moving 4 or 5 squares a turn. I think they’d be good in the hands of a good player with solid positioning, but could struggle otherwise and be pulled around the pitch. I think this is what Tier 2 is at least supposed to represent. Lizards can compensate more easily for poor positioning with speed.

2) While it may be worth the risk for the lower TV and quicker turnaround, the differences in the Str skills available is quite wide. Guard, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow would be great rolls but pile driver you wouldn’t use, arm bar is debatable in its usefulness. Juggernaut maybe on a couple but no more. Multi block is pretty useless, Thick Skull very marginal gain... but still, for 26 spp you could just buy Mb, Guard and SF and then you’re laughing.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Lizards got slower because of Break Tackle changes nerfing their mobility, but yea I could easily be doing as you describe on movement


I take your point, but because of the quicker turnaround, it means you can actually spam random primaries very fast and if some player gets particularly bad rolls, eg no good skill in the first 2 rolls (just 7spp!) then replace him

3 great skills plus 6 mediocre skills available, is decent odds I reckon.
There's none that are awful, at least


Well, it's all preliminary so far until we can test for sure
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Actually I found the Wants to Retire rule in other thread, it is 20k extra cost to redraft a player per season they've played

This eliminates some long term plans about building a squad of cheap guys that you can afford to redraft each time, by repeatedly picking Random skills and replacing the ones you don't like

So maybe Random is not that good

That's off topic for this thread tho
(I still think Black Orcs are one of the best candidates for Random Primary, though)
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:

Advancements are:
3 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 15 spp to buy a random Primary skill
6 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20 / 30 spp to buy a random Secondary skill, or choose a Primary
12 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 / 40 spp to choose a Secondary skill
18 / 20 / 24 / 28 / 32 / 50 spp to buy a random +Stat

What does this mean? SPPs for skill advancement vary now? I'm not following it (like a lot of the stupid rule changes).

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea it's hard to write clearly in a short format

Reading left to right is the cost for
1st / 2nd / 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th Advancement

So first skill, you could take a random primary skill for 3 spp. Your next random primary would cost 4 spp

There's no fixed bands. You earn spp then can spend them if you want

For your third skill, if you fancied a +stat, you would have to spend 24spp
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for clarifying. That seems overly complex, and frankly, stupid.

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:27 Reply with quote Back to top

What are the changes to break tackle?

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:39
FUMBBL Staff
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WhatBall wrote:
Thanks for clarifying. That seems overly complex, and frankly, stupid.


It’s not actually that complicated when you look at the table in the book and the rules for it, rather than just seeing other people discussing it on a forum. Wink

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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

In terms of random singles on a Black Orcs one thing that they have up on some of the other bash teams is, bribery and corruption. That IMO makes it so multiple block is the only completely terrible skill they can roll. MB and Guard are king as always, Stand firm is just below that. Then juggs, just by virtue of only one guy per turn can use it and it doesn't synergize with brawler or grab. Then I would say break tackle, arm bar, thick skull, and pile driver are all in a group together as very marginal but not terrible. And Multiple Block is awful. If you plan on keeping 3 rerolls, 1 apo, 1 toll, 6 black orcs, and 4 goblins through the redraft that is 1065k, leaving 285k for skills and rebuy fees, with the potential of going up to 395k if you were willing to drop a reroll and the apo. You could roll randoms and only keep black orcs who roll mb and/or guard through the redraft

Garion wrote:
also worth noting is leap doesnt work again cages anymore, and the Bobs have grab so SS elves are irrelevant.

I am pretty sure you can still leap into cages, it is just on a 4+ instead of a 3+.

Seventyone wrote:
What are the changes to break tackle?

Instead of using your ST for a dodge roll you can add +1 on a dodge if your player is st4 or lower and a +2 if they are st 5 or higher. So a Sauaus would dodge out of one TZ on a 4+ instead of a 2+. A Black Orc would dodge on a 3+, which is better but not amazing.
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