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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 09:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Of course the big losers in this are Nurgle Sad

Cripple Rotters, weakened Tentacles, more expensive Warriors and Disturbing P now nearly entirely pointless bloat
Felix17



Joined: May 23, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 09:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
I find it interesting that in her script she says fumble is even worse than wildly inaccurate. Which is obviously nonsense.


This is the bit that got me. They really don't understand their own game. The one they wrote the rules for, and apparently 'playtested' extensively. I can understand mistakes, but such a profound misunderstanding of risks and consequences tells me they did sweet FA analysis of the new edition. It doesn't bode well for other parts of the new rules.

Yeah, I know passing is the poor cousin to blocking and movement. But it's meant to be a key element of the game, and something that really opens things up at the right moment. To have that entire component of the game made so bad, it's sad.
Niessuh



Joined: Dec 11, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top

C0ddlefish wrote:
Of course the big losers in this are Nurgle Sad

Cripple Rotters, weakened Tentacles, more expensive Warriors and Disturbing P now nearly entirely pointless bloat


There are new possibilities...Rotters are the cheapest ST3 players around now, so it could lead to interesting minmaxing. Bloaters with Break Tackle and Pro are the new elves!

A pure bashing team transformed into a running team :p
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 10:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Niessuh wrote:
Garion wrote:
However its a tiny part of the game and who really passed anyway. Yes its a shame but on the whole the edition still looks fun to me and there are lots of parts I'm really looking forward to trying out


Fortunately now we have fumblerooskie! The Rugbybowl era begins!


I really like this skill, but I will not be using it sadly. as the majority of the teams I will play I will not take throwers, and the ones I do take will not be taking this skill. On the players that will benefit the most from this skill - Gutter Runners, any elf with Ma7+, Werewolves, I just wouldn't spend a double on it.

As for the Nurgle situation. This doesn't bother me too much. I think they could genuinely be built as defensive team now, rather than taking claw etc.. Sure they aren't top tier. But that's fine with me. They are a rotten mutants shambling about a sports field. It was more weird to me that they are so good in CRP

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 11:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Break tackle won't be great on a Bloater - gets you to Ag3 dodging - meh!

With random SSP they will also be very slow to develop. With a higher redraft level I guess we could have seen development of more guard, SF spoiler Bloaters
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 11:28 Reply with quote Back to top

C0ddlefish wrote:
Break tackle won't be great on a Bloater - gets you to Ag3 dodging - meh!

With random SSP they will also be very slow to develop. With a higher redraft level I guess we could have seen development of more guard, SF spoiler Bloaters


yeah break tackle wont be taken, you'd take 2 heads on a Pestigor, and bloaters have no room for a luxury skill like that now.

i think the interesting build on Nurgle Warriors is Block Guard, tents, with the new anti guard skill dotted about the team on other players(forgot its name, is it Defence?). then you can St dominate the pitch against a bunch of players. Obviously the beast is Block, Guard, SF.

Pestigors I'd have-
2heads, Sure hands, dodge,
Block, MB, Claw x2

then DP SG rotters.

It is deffo going to be a tricky team to manage though because of re-draft.

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Fanky



Joined: Jul 07, 2016

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Imo the sad thing about this is: Less Elfs, more Undead and overall more Dorfs *sigh* so less Stunty and in general less variety.
Niessuh



Joined: Dec 11, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
C0ddlefish wrote:
Break tackle won't be great on a Bloater - gets you to Ag3 dodging - meh!


yeah break tackle wont be taken, you'd take 2 heads on a Pestigor, and bloaters have no room for a luxury skill like that now.


I mean, break tackle + 2 heads - leads to 1+ dodging stars
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Felix17 wrote:
Garion wrote:
I find it interesting that in her script she says fumble is even worse than wildly inaccurate. Which is obviously nonsense.


This is the bit that got me. They really don't understand their own game. The one they wrote the rules for, and apparently 'playtested' extensively. I can understand mistakes, but such a profound misunderstanding of risks and consequences tells me they did sweet FA analysis of the new edition. It doesn't bode well for other parts of the new rules.

Yeah, I know passing is the poor cousin to blocking and movement. But it's meant to be a key element of the game, and something that really opens things up at the right moment. To have that entire component of the game made so bad, it's sad.


Yes... I agree... the "Wildly Inaccurate" results is so bad that you are very rarely going to pass the ball as long as there is chance to roll that result. The risk of the opponent scoring against you when that happen will just be exponentially greater than if you fumble. A potential fumble or inaccurate you can at least protect against to some degree.

If it works as the video say then it also is way more likely to WI than it was to fumble in BB2016 and that is really bad.

Who would ever use controlled passing in any capacity outside quick passes or short passes with Accurate skill now?!?
You would need a 1+ passer and cannoneer to throw even a decent long pass without fear of WI result. I don't think it is realistic to expect these type of throwers to develop that often. Maybe if you rush for a stat increase and get 1+ passing as the first skill perhaps.

The only reason I would shuck a ball and risk WI would be in a desperate situation. I certainly would favour a fumble over Wildly Inaccurate any time of the day.

If we don't see passes attempted more then allot of other skills also become much less useful and that is a shame.

I will be quite disappointed if the passing work as mentioned that is for sure.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Niessuh wrote:
Garion wrote:
C0ddlefish wrote:
Break tackle won't be great on a Bloater - gets you to Ag3 dodging - meh!


yeah break tackle wont be taken, you'd take 2 heads on a Pestigor, and bloaters have no room for a luxury skill like that now.


I mean, break tackle + 2 heads - leads to 1+ dodging stars


Aye, sounds nice, but because of draft rules i just don't see this being a thing. People have to be much more conservative with their skill selection now. luxury players are a thing of the past.

Fanky wrote:
Imo the sad thing about this is: Less Elfs, more Undead and overall more Dorfs *sigh* so less Stunty and in general less variety.


I don't think you need to worry about this Fanky. I think elves are big winners in this edition, same with Necro, and Skaven. Dwarves are obvious beneficiaries in this edition because so many rules appear to benefit them - passing being useless now, random MVP, low skill count on players, re draft, fouling buff (obviously dwarves are the hardest race to foul), that the new way of selecting skills promotes min maxing and so on. But I still think the pro coaches will be running rampant with the fast teams and the meta will follow their lead a little further down the line. The fast agile teams are the best Running teams, always have been still will be. And this addition is all about running the ball.

As for stunties I think all stunty teams are all too good in this edition, not as in OP, but in that they are meant to be tier 3, but I don't think they will be anymore. They are just going to be fouling every turn of the game, and abusing the hell out of inducements. They are going to be absolutely brutal at low Tv

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:36 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
Felix17 wrote:
Garion wrote:
I find it interesting that in her script she says fumble is even worse than wildly inaccurate. Which is obviously nonsense.


This is the bit that got me. They really don't understand their own game. The one they wrote the rules for, and apparently 'playtested' extensively. I can understand mistakes, but such a profound misunderstanding of risks and consequences tells me they did sweet FA analysis of the new edition. It doesn't bode well for other parts of the new rules.

Yeah, I know passing is the poor cousin to blocking and movement. But it's meant to be a key element of the game, and something that really opens things up at the right moment. To have that entire component of the game made so bad, it's sad.


Yes... I agree... the "Wildly Inaccurate" results is so bad that you are very rarely going to pass the ball as long as there is chance to roll that result. The risk of the opponent scoring against you when that happen will just be exponentially greater than if you fumble. A potential fumble or inaccurate you can at least protect against to some degree.

If it works as the video say then it also is way more likely to WI than it was to fumble in BB2016 and that is really bad.

Who would ever use controlled passing in any capacity outside quick passes or short passes with Accurate skill now?!?
You would need a 1+ passer and cannoneer to throw even a decent long pass without fear of WI result. I don't think it is realistic to expect these type of throwers to develop that often. Maybe if you rush for a stat increase and get 1+ passing as the first skill perhaps.

The only reason I would shuck a ball and risk WI would be in a desperate situation. I certainly would favour a fumble over Wildly Inaccurate any time of the day.

If we don't see passes attempted more then allot of other skills also become much less useful and that is a shame.

I will be quite disappointed if the passing work as mentioned that is for sure.


Sure WIP is crap, its a terrible rule. But honestly why are you passing more than a quick pass or short pass anyway? There's almost never any need to. So just stay away from long and long bomb.

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Last edited by Garion on Nov 21, 2020 - 13:02; edited 1 time in total
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
CAB wrote:
Felix17 wrote:
Garion wrote:
I find it interesting that in her script she says fumble is even worse than wildly inaccurate. Which is obviously nonsense.


This is the bit that got me. They really don't understand their own game. The one they wrote the rules for, and apparently 'playtested' extensively. I can understand mistakes, but such a profound misunderstanding of risks and consequences tells me they did sweet FA analysis of the new edition. It doesn't bode well for other parts of the new rules.

Yeah, I know passing is the poor cousin to blocking and movement. But it's meant to be a key element of the game, and something that really opens things up at the right moment. To have that entire component of the game made so bad, it's sad.


Yes... I agree... the "Wildly Inaccurate" results is so bad that you are very rarely going to pass the ball as long as there is chance to roll that result. The risk of the opponent scoring against you when that happen will just be exponentially greater than if you fumble. A potential fumble or inaccurate you can at least protect against to some degree.

If it works as the video say then it also is way more likely to WI than it was to fumble in BB2016 and that is really bad.

Who would ever use controlled passing in any capacity outside quick passes or short passes with Accurate skill now?!?
You would need a 1+ passer and cannoneer to throw even a decent long pass without fear of WI result. I don't think it is realistic to expect these type of throwers to develop that often. Maybe if you rush for a stat increase and get 1+ passing as the first skill perhaps.

The only reason I would shuck a ball and risk WI would be in a desperate situation. I certainly would favour a fumble over Wildly Inaccurate any time of the day.

If we don't see passes attempted more then allot of other skills also become much less useful and that is a shame.

I will be quite disappointed if the passing work as mentioned that is for sure.


Sure WIP is crap, its a terrible rule. But honestly why are you passing more that a quick pass or short pass anyway? There's almost never any need to. So just stay away from long and long bomb.


It should be an option at least for a dedicated thrower. WI will kill it completely if you can't avoid it.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe it's an error and should scatter from the receivers square
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

yeah I agree, WI is a stupid rule, it shouldn't exist. Maybe they designed it this way to encourage HMP use. Is HMP a thing still? my physical copy hasn't arrived yet and I don't have my "digital copy" Cool in front of me.

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CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 13:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
yeah I agree, WI is a stupid rule, it shouldn't exist. Maybe they designed it this way to encourage HMP use. Is HMP a thing still? my physical copy hasn't arrived yet and I don't have my "digital copy" Cool in front of me.


HMP is still in the rules and function pretty much the same. It you get HMP as a random skill it probably is just fine but as a selected skill not so much.

But if the rules work as "intended" and not as written then rolling a random passing skill just got pointless as there are too many bad skills on it.
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