Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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 Posted:
Aug 27, 2020 - 03:42 |
 
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Fantastic, welcome aboard PC. I am the commissioner of the SWL. For SWL there's a few things that are pretty much must haves if we go over to seasons on FUMBBL. These are based on our testing and use of an offsite script to manually implement seasons since the change to BB16.
Here is an example of the most recent season's off site script:
http://info.swl.org.au/post-season/82
1. the ability to alter the season re-buy totals, preferably manually. We currently provide an additional 100k to teams playing in the Regional divisions, 150k to teams playing in our Conference divisions and 200k for teams playing in our Premiership divisions. We have found that the varying levels of play add some diversity to experience and team composition which in turn is vital to longevity. Using the default formula, teams are too small based on 7 round seasons. The game bonus, TD Bonus and Cas Bonus should also be manually adjustable.
2. We must maintain the ability to manually alter expensive mistakes if they are still a factor in BB20. We found that the rebuy totals were too heavily influenced by expensive mistake rolls in the final game of the season. This was creating unnatural disparity between teams in the same divisions with similar records. When the influence of a single die roll determined players rebuys to a greater degree than performance we implemented a structure that mitigated that influence. In turn, this allowed teams to make purchases beyond game 3 in the season and maintain their team's strength throughout without being punished. This is essential to the integrity of the divisions and draw as well as keeping players engaged over multiple seasons.
They are probably the two most important factors in consideration of Seasons implementation. I have a few ideas on how the interface could work for league administrators but won't go into that here.
Some nice to have's for league in general would be:
1. The expansion of schedule types and the ability to manually alter draws and schedules.
For example the ability to run a 7 round season with 10 teams in a division. Sometimes we don't have exact numbers divisible by 8 but need to stick to our 7 round season format to maintain our rhythm and yearly schedule. It would also be nice to be able to change the schedule of teams from completely random for administrators if required. It would also be nice to have the option to generate seperate divisions for multiple teams, so for example we could randomise the distribution of say 24 teams into 3 separate groups of 8 in round robin format.
2. The ability to change points totals after the final game of a division is played to correctly show the division's winner based on league rules for tiebreakers. Unfortunately, the fumbbl round robin format is pretty impossible to set tiebreakers for using the SWL tiebreaker order (H2H, TD Diff Avg, TD For Avg, Cas Diff Avg, Cas For Avg, Coin Toss/Bribes).
3. Automated league record keeping. That is, the addition of a statistics tab tracking all sorts of metrics based on games played within only the individual league.
4. The ability to turn on a function where opponents are automatically Private Messaged when they become scheduled against each other for ease of scheduling. For example, I have finished my round 2 game. When my opponent for round 3 has finished their's, FUMBBL sends us both a PM saying that we are scheduled allowing us to organise a time via that thread. This might be too hard to implement and create other issues but it would be helpful.
Baby crying, I may add to this later. |
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Foad
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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Aug 27, 2020 - 05:39 |
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Hi PC, great to have you take carriage of this.
I have run NAF Live! events with Purplegoo as well as assisting Tomay with the SWL league as one of his faithful lackeys, including number of smaller side tournaments with custom rules. I've also played in other leagues such as DIBBL and WIL.
The key for me is autonomy. I understand the philosophy of not wanting to run 2 rule sets as this dilutes the player base, but for [L]eague I feel that this shouldn't apply as it has a far different purpose and mandate. Ranked and Box? Completely agree with the direction of the site.
That said, the custom rosters, variable league settings, admin agility and so on are what make the league division great, and whilst I personally can't wait for the BB2020 release and it's implementation in competitive divisions - I'd hate to see functionality taken away from League on an arbitrary basis.
I'd honestly love to see more customisation available. Some on LRB concepts that have since gone would be amazing to have back as "options" for rule sets. (IGMEOY, aging, DP+2, Spikes, Stand Firm dodging).
I'd also like to flag a point about consultation. With changes coming, I'd really hate to see that one day "It's happened", and some existing league are significantly changed. If wholesale changes are made on a site level that will impact leagues that are running, I feel there is value to flagging when the change is happening to allow user run leagues to give fair warning to their players. As an example the SWL run 7 week cycles, and would appreciate a "heads up" as to a possible change date.
That's my 2c. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 27, 2020 - 11:44 |
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| Tomay wrote: |
1. the ability to alter the season re-buy totals, preferably manually. We currently provide an additional 100k to teams playing in the Regional divisions, 150k to teams playing in our Conference divisions and 200k for teams playing in our Premiership divisions. We have found that the varying levels of play add some diversity to experience and team composition which in turn is vital to longevity. Using the default formula, teams are too small based on 7 round seasons. The game bonus, TD Bonus and Cas Bonus should also be manually adjustable.
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When you say "manually", do you mean per team?
I think that the base cash value and the cap would be handy for differentiating between divisions. Do you need more? |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Aug 27, 2020 - 12:25 |
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Due to forfeits and general issues with very large leesgues, I can imagine being able to manually adjust per team is probably helpful, even if it's not expected to be used for every team during every season. |
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razmus
Joined: Jun 23, 2017
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Aug 27, 2020 - 14:39 |
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Positions: Commish- Isle of Misfit Teams, Secret Isle of Misfit Teams, Old World Rookie Rumble , Old World Brawl (the last two are the SL equivalent to the Royal Rookie Rumble, and B.A.R. Brawl.)
Assist in a few other leagues and SL tournaments, and have played in a dozen more.
| Nelphine wrote: | Speaking for Razmus (which I shouldn't do, but I want to make sure its noted here), he has multiple leagues (Isle of Misfit Teams and Secret Isle of Misfit Teams) where the express stated intention of those leagues is to take teams that were in a different league which stopped being used.
Classically this means that he targets people from 145 club AND people from open League, but he also wants to take people from basically any other league at all, and allow them in. |
Yep. And as the ruleset six fractures, the Isle of Misfit Teams (IoMT) can't accept teams created for many of the new leagues. Ruleset six currently does not "Allow cross-league matches, assuming ruleset is the same." Right now it allows teams who were created before league specific teams were being created/imported... what was Open League play teams, and I won't import the teams into IoMT because there is no way convenient way to put the team's "league" value back to "0", which would prevent the team from playing Open League games after they leave the island. So right now, the IoMT continues to exist in the cracks... I'm not certain how league (ruleset 6) open play will work with the new rules and seasons.
Open Secret League teams in the 303 ruleset don't have that issue, because the ruleset allows cross-league matches. Unfortunately, I believe gamefinder fix which prevented mismatched ruleset teams from getting matched, also prevents mismatched league values from getting matched. Secret League America(SLA), for example, allows/encourages teams not in the playoffs to play up to three friendlies between seasons, and those games are often in the open environment. If they were created as a SLA team, effectively they can't use the gamefinder to get their friendlies. Fortunately this is easier to resolve because there are active managers of the Secret League Open group who can import wayward teams... and there's an active community on the SL Discord to match teams there.
So, what do razmus want?
More capability for open play in the [L]eagues division... ideally allowing ruleset six to play cross-league matches, and whatever gamefinder/scheduler to match valid teams together. (So, yeah... count this as a +1 for Garion's Secret League scheduler!) I think that does also mean default seasons of some sort of ruleset six teams just floating from game to game.
| Tomay wrote: | | 4. The ability to turn on a function where opponents are automatically Private Messaged when they become scheduled against each other for ease of scheduling. For example, I have finished my round 2 game. When my opponent for round 3 has finished their's, FUMBBL sends us both a PM saying that we are scheduled allowing us to organise a time via that thread. This might be too hard to implement and create other issues but it would be helpful. |
OMG YES! This! Or if not this -- a flag of some sort... a big one... that alerts coaches that they have a game to play, and neither they nor their opponent is blocked by an unplayed game. And the flag only stops waving in the coaches face when the FUMBBL scheduler knows when the game is scheduled so that the other league coaches (and the league/tournament commissioner) know when the game has been agreed to be played. (Or resurrect Clippy! "It looks like you need to schedule a Blood Bowl Game! Would you like help with that?") |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 27, 2020 - 15:47 |
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The game finder issue looks like a bug. Have you raised a ticket?
So, you only see teams in the same league on gamefinder now
@PurpleChest: Ideally there would be a write up on how all this works. It seems that even the people who use this most don't really know.
@Razmus: What are you doing about seasons? Staying on 6 so no seasons? |
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razmus
Joined: Jun 23, 2017
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Aug 27, 2020 - 16:18 |
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I haven't opened a bug report. I understand that a replacement gamefinder is still in the works, and the current behaviour is optimized for ruleset 6. It just has unintended consequences for ruleset 303.
As far as seasons, I've not yet received an official set of BB2020 rules yet. What I've seen of seasons from leaked documents looks materially like BB2016. I'll optimize what is available for use to get the most games played. If it is an option, I'll run one IoMT league with seasons and one without for as long as there are teams or coaches who want to play in one environment or the other. Each favors a different style of play. If there isn't an option, I'll use whatever is available. |
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Sharkrudi
Joined: Dec 19, 2011
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Aug 27, 2020 - 16:48 |
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Hi, perhaps Create a new style (with knock out, round robin, etc) to play a season with back and forth matches |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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Aug 27, 2020 - 22:07 |
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| koadah wrote: |
When you say "manually", do you mean per team?
I think that the base cash value and the cap would be handy for differentiating between divisions. Do you need more? |
Yes per team, unless there becomes an additional way to differentiate between teams within the league or the score function is expanded on. Otherwise there will be no real way to differentiate between levels within the league.
| Nelphine wrote: | | Due to forfeits and general issues with very large leesgues, I can imagine being able to manually adjust per team is probably helpful, even if it's not expected to be used for every team during every season. |
This also, we add a 60k bonus to rebuy for teams who have missed a game due to opponent forfeit or no show. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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This is great, we have the major leagues represented, but if anyone knows any of the smaller league commissioners please point them this way.
I shall also do some search and PM work to encourage that.
Also questioning and defining down each others ideas is really useful.
Ultimately i would love to create a prioritised list of L 'needs/wants' in a single place. Just a heads up, We will work towards that in time. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 28, 2020 - 11:59 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 28, 2020 - 12:14 |
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HUBBA 1 and HUBBA 2 are great leagues have been ever popular since I created them
Badoek i believe is running them these days |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Aug 28, 2020 - 12:31 |
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SSL dogsbody here, assistant to other southern leagues at various times.
We use must take stats when rolled, and no player retirements allowed along with a stack of the league client options, and definitely the cards are a major deal for us, along with the permanently spiked ball.
So, the old 2d6 for skills and current SPP system would be useful to keep things running. Seasons have some potential for us, but yeah, what I've seen of planned options there would work for us if we use it.
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Regarding SWL and others' style bigger/smaller divisions, a workaround would be to use three rulesets and groups, have a premier group (new), a reggies group (fringe), and most teams in the confs group (keep as 647).
Tournaments will work in 647 for teams that aren't imported to 647.
So promote to prem, apply to the prem group, get imported there, and then apply back to 647, is just the five promoting teams per season need to do that. Demotions from prem to confs imported where they are to use Confs ruleset/rebuy.
A little to do for coaches, but 5 teams up to prem, 4 down to reggies, the other 40 odd just get a few imported in place if they've landed in confs. Gives you three rulesets for three different season/rebuy tiers, and potentially whatever else if other leagues wanted to shake things up a bit more but still keep everything nicely contained in one group for tournaments. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 28, 2020 - 12:51 |
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| tussock wrote: |
Regarding SWL and others' style bigger/smaller divisions, a workaround would be to use three rulesets and groups, have a premier group (new), a reggies group (fringe), and most teams in the confs group (keep as 647).
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It'll probably work but it sounds a lot of hassle compared to just a simple points override for promoted/relegated teams.
A points override would be very flexible allowing prizes, handicaps, boosts for teams that missed out on TD/cas bonuses due toi foorfeits etc. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 28, 2020 - 13:02 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: |
Ultimately i would love to create a prioritised list of L 'needs/wants' in a single place. Just a heads up, We will work towards that in time. |
Firstly, for me, I think just the word from Christer on whether or not teams will be allowed to transfer back into main open league after transferring to a custom league.
Some people will be edgy about transferring out if there is no way back.
Also on not being able to play between leagues on the same ruleset on Gamefinder. Should that be allowed when the " Allow cross-league matches" flag is on?
Is this a bug or by design? |
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