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Frowny



Joined: Apr 27, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 02:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Reading through the changes to vampires for bb2020 got me excited. I think the changes to animal savagery are a buff. Vampires will do more damage but in a roundabout way, I think actually be more consistent. And consistency wins games in bloodbowl. 2+ gazes and gauranteed being able to move where you want when you want at the expense of a thrall seem excellent

So some questions for you all now to ponder.

How many vampires on a team? I used to use 3 but am now pondering more.

Does the optimal build change from blodge+pro? I think jump up has a lot more value now, to keep them blocking and blitzing.

Any value to stats now? I think ag and St will be too expensive, and with 2+ gazes less needed. +Passing seems useful on one of them and +mv could be interesting as well.

How many thralls? I was running 11 thralls and 4 camps most recently but also liked 11 or 12 and 3. More unities seem likely.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 04:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Didnt the GW FAQ say the Animal Savagery is a 4+ not a 2+? That means you're hitting you're own guys 50% of your moves? Thats not a buffed team imho...
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 04:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Assuming you'll hit thralls mostly, which you don't have to, Vamps are tougher ...

4+ to avoid an armour roll, instead of 2+ to avoid an injury roll.

That's 22% injuries vs 17% injuries, increase of 1/18 activations.

Vs Vamps, 14% injuries. Decrease of 1/36 activations! And they regen!

With Pro, it's 67% to avoid an armour roll, instead of 90% to avoid an injury roll.

That's 14% injuries vs 10% injuries, increase of 1/24 activations.

Vs Vamps, 9% injuries, Decrease of 1/216 actvations. And they regen!

Pro Gaze goes from 21/27 to 25/27, or a gaze fail:success ratio of 2:7 going to 2:25! If you need a couple gazes to work, that's vastly more reliable. It's even 2:12 just with a rookie!

And their blitz hit is still 2+. With 3+ pro, where you don't need a thrall at the end of your move any more. It's not a team can do quite as much in a half, if you're used to moving all six pro vamps every turn in a half, you'll cause an extra couple injuries this new way.

And no more injuries if you've got a rookie Vamp to hit. Like, mostly it's back to lrb4 style injuries rather than maximum BH, but even with that, just bite rookies. It's a huge buff for gazing and a little less pointless moves that don't do anything is good for vampire play anyway. Very Happy

The best bit, you don't lose the vamp you're trying to move. At worst, you don't even give them anything to hit, and 1/3 of the time your Pro vamp loses his TZ for a turn instead of trying to gaze, they used to leave the pitch on a fail! But if you need the gaze? Feed him and it's almost certain to work. And the blitz will work too.

And that's a solid buff. Just, prone to self destruction on heavy cas days, pretty much like they always were. The extra perms? Well, rebuy, you'll be fine.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 06:42 Reply with quote Back to top

You can also avoid biting anyone at all by never having players next to your vampires when you activate them and accepting some boneheads. On the flip side, you may end up in situations where your vampires are close together and inavoidably attacking each other...

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Frowny



Joined: Apr 27, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 14:31 Reply with quote Back to top

One could even avoid biting by putting vampires on the LoS. 3 vamps with a thrall behind them on average will only bite the thrall and gives you 3 ST 4 blocks. Might have value against some teams like elves that can't really out muscle you. Additionally, vamps are so agile they can always dodge away or leap over if they need to gaze something, and being up front might avoid their biggest weakness, their mv6.
GreatPorridge



Joined: Dec 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 14:05 Reply with quote Back to top

In my opinion Vampires are the overlooked ultimate cage-busters of this edition. Imagine the following scenario:

Tight cage with block+dodge+sure+side step+safe pair of hands hands ball carrier.
1st vampire 2+ gazes the corner,
2nd vampire walks in and 3+ gazes ball carrier,
3rd player takes the other opening and (st4,2d) blitzes the ball carrier. As per p.74 of the new rulebook players who have lost their tackle zones cannot use skills. Therefore the ball carrier may use neither block, dodge, ss nor SPoH. However sure hands still works against strip ball because it does not need to be "used". Strip ball simply just cannot be used against a player with sure hands (p.77).

Hypnotic gaze can also be used to surf sidesteppers.

On the downside of the change, should you lose your own tackle zone as a result of animal savagery, you will also lose ability to use passive skills.
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Good Lord!

So, what you're saying is, if I hypnotise then bliz in, I can surf a Snotling?

Mind blown. Shocked
GreatPorridge



Joined: Dec 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 17:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Grasshugger17 wrote:
Good Lord!

So, what you're saying is, if I hypnotise then bliz in, I can surf a Snotling?

Mind blown. Shocked


Yes, stunty meat for the halfling bakeries. Pie for all.


Overally I think Vampires received a big buff in this edition.

Buffs:
-Hypnotic gaze is now a 2+ instead of 3+
-Losing tackle zones prevents skill use (2nd buff for hypnotic gaze)
-Pro on 3+ (3rd buff for hypnotic gaze)
-Animal savagery feeds before moving
-Failing animal savagery is not a turnover

Nerfs:
-Animal Savagery causes slightly more injuries and leaves many other players prone.
-If alone, a 1/2 chance of losing tackle zones and being left without any defensive skills (harder stretch plays and punishes positioning mistakes).
-Animal Savagery cannot be used on already downed players.

Significant nerfs to other teams that promote cages over other play styles:
-Worse passing (also slightly hurts Vamps).
-Worse leap makes cage-busting harder, especially for non-vampire agile teams.
-Worse break tackle makes cage-busting harder, especially for strong teams.


This leaves Vamps in a good niche spot where they are one of the few if not the only team that can reliably break the increasingly common cages.

Also Vamps can form agile, tough st4 cages that the other teams will struggle to penetrate.
That is, unless the usual Vampire problem, rising casualties, prevents them from controlling the space.
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