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Poll
Will you stall less in BB2020 to maximise you winnings?
I never stall anyway
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
I won't stall, I want the money
2%
 2%  [ 3 ]
Probably stall less
15%
 15%  [ 21 ]
Winning is more important - I will keep stalling
60%
 60%  [ 81 ]
Not sure
9%
 9%  [ 13 ]
I am on the BB2020 boycott train
7%
 7%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 134


Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 22:26 Reply with quote Back to top

In BB2020, you no longer get 10K winnings and a dice reroll if you won the game, but instead, you get 10K per touch-down scored. Will this see the end of stalling and more high scoring games?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Money is only money. Wins are pride. You might see less stalling in round-robin leagues with postseasons, because in that case winning money helps you win games, at least at first. In [C], no, because it's not matched up by games since reset, but rather by TV (whether fishbowl or box, both are TV-driven).

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BlockBadger



Joined: Jan 21, 2021

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 01:12 Reply with quote Back to top

They have not fixed the issue with having too much time and having to waist some of it to not give it to your opponent.
Plus if you keep winning you can be on 55k a match minimum with one touch down.
Its a good step, but won't fix the issue.
Passing changes will also make farming SPP harder, but again won't fix stalling.
Changing to 4 even 5 offence/4 defence turn drives or reducing drive length to 6 turns would both really force people to get a move on.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 05:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I clicked "probably stall less" which is a broad statement to say that I will stall less if it suits me. It is also race dependent and opponent race dependent as well. I dont think Dwarves, for example, can't play a more expansive game because they cannot defend against a 2 turn score against them. They stall not because they're slow on offence, they stall because they're slow on defence.

I see elves and skaven being keen to score more because they're fragile and more cash is important to them.

Also generally costs of most players have increased slightly and hence amount of cash needed to replace dead and injured is higher, so obliquely it is in your best interests to win 3-2 rather than 2-1.

However, I think the mindset of most coaches is winning first and if that means stalling, so be it.

If they truly wanted to fix stalling, the Throw a Rock would be an automatic 1 in 6 chance once the mechanical definition of stalling was met, not a 1 in 16 roll to get the Throw Rock Prayer to Nuffle on a table that will be rarely used (I have been play testing the rules and in about 8 games, the PtN table is rarely used and I have never seen the Throw Rock come out).
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 06:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it depends on the team and matchup. I will continue to stall where it will likely get me the win. While I may not get 10k for the win, I do get 10k for the touchdown so it sort of cancels itself out. Especially if I am a brawler team like Chaos or Nurgle, there is no way I would have the capacity to score quickly, then counter score or exploit a failed offense to score again barring insane luck on my end or horrible luck on my opponents.
Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 10:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think stalling needs fixing at all. If someone is able to stall against you, then either you've been very unlucky with dice (e.g. cas dice are on fire and you've hardly any men left) or, and I bet this is the reason more often, you've made mistakes that allow them to stall.
Prez



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 11:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Malmir wrote:
I'm not sure why so many people seem to think stalling needs fixing at all. If someone is able to stall against you, then either you've been very unlucky with dice (e.g. cas dice are on fire and you've hardly any men left) or, and I bet this is the reason more often, you've made mistakes that allow them to stall.


+1

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Prez
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Stalling often makes drives very boring wasting turns on purpose. Also, while an agile team stalling generally has to take some risks and 1d actions rolling, the bash team stalling doesn't risk much, because it relies on 2d blocks mostly.

BlockBadger wrote:

Changing to 4 even 5 offence/4 defence turn drives or reducing drive length to 6 turns would both really force people to get a move on.

Yes, decreasing the duration of a half to 7-6 turns would have been a good idea in my opinion.
Not sure about 6 turns, because Tomb Kings could struggle to score with Pouring Rain (failed pick ups and very poor passing option).
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 12:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Stalling to me is fine. I have no issue stalling and have no issue being stalled upon, because yes, its generally due to my dice and/or poor game decision making.

HOWEVER... as a game designer, you dont want your game to have dead air time. You want the game to be thrilling, exciting and enjoyable for both/all players.

This is a general philosophy of game design and you cannot blame GW for looking to address it.

But rather than looking for a mechanical solution to remove stalling, I think as players we all have a duty of care to take into context the game we are playing. Are we playing at the Top Table at a NAF World Cup? Or are we playing a local league beer and pretzels game with our mates where the stakes are minimal?

In real life TT, we all would play differently. I would stall out at a World Cup but I would play the game out TD for TD against my kid nephew for example, irrespective of races being played.

The issue we have on fumbbl is that we're behind a screen and some of us are looking for beer and pretzel fun and some of us see our CR rating as the be all and end all and would stall out their grandmother for an extra 0.1 points of CR.

What I do in this situation is play the game my way and not whinge when someone else plays there way. Stalling is like T16 fouling... a controversial topic that brings out passion for both points of view in which no one view is right or wrong.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 13:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Like holding the ball in the corner at the end of a foitball match, it's a valid tactic to try and get a win, but it's boring to watch.
As not all races are equal, not stalling would be pretty much handing the other team the win for free in certain matchups.
Whilst it's not fun for either coach, it's an essential tactic for some races
Zlefin



Joined: Apr 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 13:47 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to see even stronger anti-stalling rules. I find stalling to simply be unfun, especially when done over many turns. It also seems potentially anti-fluff, as stalling while the other team stays down and avoids fighting would be boring. And boring leads to angry crowds, and angry crowds in bloodbowl do very nasty things.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Prez wrote:
Malmir wrote:
I'm not sure why so many people seem to think stalling needs fixing at all. If someone is able to stall against you, then either you've been very unlucky with dice (e.g. cas dice are on fire and you've hardly any men left) or, and I bet this is the reason more often, you've made mistakes that allow them to stall.


+1


+1

Stall FTW!

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Zlefin wrote:
I'd like to see even stronger anti-stalling rules. I find stalling to simply be unfun, especially when done over many turns. It also seems potentially anti-fluff, as stalling while the other team stays down and avoids fighting would be boring. And boring leads to angry crowds, and angry crowds in bloodbowl do very nasty things.


The obvious mechanic is Throw a Rock occurs whenever the stalling mechanic is triggered with a 6+. Next turn it triggers on a 5+... so for every turn stalling is taking place, the higher the chance of a thrown rock
Foho



Joined: May 05, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 16:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Unpopular opinion: stalling is great thrill. Unless it's extremely one sided. But then again, any bb game that is extremely one sided is meh.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:

The obvious mechanic is Throw a Rock occurs whenever the stalling mechanic is triggered with a 6+. Next turn it triggers on a 5+... so for every turn stalling is taking place, the higher the chance of a thrown rock

Throw a Rock with increasing chance as anti-stalling would be nice, but it should not break automatically the ball carrier's AV.
The player should be knocked down and an AV roll should be made.
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