52 coaches online • Server time: 14:18
Forum Chat
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Secret League Americ...goto Post DOTP Season 4goto Post Skittles' Centu...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Poll
Do you agree with most of the points indicated in this thread?
yes
5%
 5%  [ 9 ]
No
66%
 66%  [ 104 ]
I don't care: i will play BB whatever be the rules
24%
 24%  [ 38 ]
I will abandon BB2020 in any case
3%
 3%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 157


MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 14:18 Reply with quote Back to top

If you speak like Plato, you should like the octahedron. Razz
Anyway, I didn't add an extra POW because it would change the chance of knocking down a Blodger (with AV roll) from 1/8 to 1/4.
I didn't add an extra Push/POW because it would change the chance of knocking down a Block player (with AV roll) from 1/3 to 3/8.
Not trying to persuade you, you are not a BB game designer, so it would be an exercise of futility. I just explain for the sake of constructive debate.
Also, that blocking is not broken it's arguable, it works quite well as it is but it could be improved.
I can remember more than one game where a drive was ruined by rolling too many double skulls (not to mention a double skull at start then a double skull later on the same turn or a quad skull).
With D8 rolling a double skull is 1/64, with D6 is 1/36.
More emphasis on positioning and blocking to advance, less chance of unlucky (and frustrating) double skulls.


Last edited by MattDakka on Mar 11, 2021 - 21:45; edited 1 time in total
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 14:57 Reply with quote Back to top

It might be an interesting thought experiment to forget the tabletop and just look at the online environment. Probabilities of outcomes could then be tweaked accordingly.
Modifiers would have to be adjusted to percentage based but would allow for tweaking of everything to find the holy grail of balance.
I'd like to see the odds of some of the gimmies improved (e.g. pickup in no tacklezones)
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 16:02 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

Foad wrote:

I've been using the following for over a decade on FUMBBL:
1: Skull
2: Skull
3: Skull
4: Both Down
5: Push
6: Push
7: Push/Pow
8: Pow

My system doesn't use 3 Skull results because that would mean too much disadvantage for the team who is acting in the turn. Also, just 1 Pow result on 8 would make Blodgers too good vs teams without Tackle.
My system gives a chance to stop Blodgers to every team, even those starting with no core skills.
Last, but not least, my D8 system makes teams without blocking core skills (Chaos, Nurgle, Lizardmen etc.) less frustrating to play at low TV, because there are only 2 turnover results (Skull, Both Down) on 8 results, while, with D6 block dice, they are 2 on 6.
So, a 2d block with D8 block dice fails 1/16, instead of a 2d block with D6 block dice, 1/9.
Playing Vampires, Chaos, Nurgle, Lizardmen and Stunty teams would be less frustrating with my D8 system.


Matt you are pretty much impervious to jokes, aren't you? Laughing

_________________
Image
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 17:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Very Happy I missed Foad's post sarcasm, I thought he was serious. Next time I will check with a sarcasm detector! Razz
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 20:43 Reply with quote Back to top

NOT AT ALL. I am the one who is GROWN.

THIS IS NOT YELLING.
This is yelling!!!

See the difference. Of course you do.
Because you like the rest of us understand the PUNCTUATION implies yelling and has for our entire lives.
And CAPITALIZING 1 or 2 words in a sentence is done for EMPHASIS of those words and has been for our entire lives.

Until some NERDS using CHAT and avoiding all rules of PUNCTUATION decided that anything in ALL CAPS was yelling ALL forms of language agreed on this.

I will concede the CHAT ROOMS to the NERDS.
I will not concede the rest of ALL LANGUAGE to them.

Standard Language, with Standard Punctuation still applies in an Internet Forum post. Because PUNCTUATION aids in the meaning for the written word. And yielding to CHAT ROOM or perhaps TEXTING Rules in such a Fourm as this DUMBS DOWN the level of discourse.

I am RIGHT about this. Everyone needs to get behind me on this. And this is a hill I will DIE ON for the sake of LANGUAGE... 1 of the only things separating MAN from the APE/BEAST.

You do not want to live in the world of MORONS and BABIES being created by the thought process that CAPITAL LETTERS are YELLING and an ATTACK. It is a VILE and EVIL world of SPINELESS pencil pushers that rule over every aspect of life.

koadah wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
koadah wrote:
@Catalyst32: Calm down, calm down.

"Yes" is now at 6. I don't think that that is enough to bring down civilisation as we know it.


Grow Up Koadah. I am quite CALM.
I DO NOT SUBCRIBE to the notion that writing in ALL CAPS is YELLING everywhere online.
That is a stupid notion and any of you SHOULD be able to tell that I am only placing extra emphasis on certain words I am using and NOT YELLING by the way I choose my words.

That ALL CAPS crap is for CHAT ROOMS. Not FORUM POSTS. It des not carry over to the rest of the INTERWEBS and it is MORONIC to think that way.
When I speak you should hear something like the words of CONFUCIUS or ARISTOTLE or PLATO speaking. You shoujld hear the words of wisdom of your wisest friend who is NOT YELLING ANYTHING AT ALL (except when I PUNCTUATE with THESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

CHAT ROOMS do not change ALL of LANGUAGE just because LANGUAGE is used ONLINE. It is RIDICULOUS to expect so.


I pretty much agree with everything you said about the rules. But the way that you insist on saying it suggests that you are the one that needs to grow.

Especially considering Argos_72's response at the top of the page.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 20:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32. Your posts are very hard to read with the excessive capitalisation. Ease up a bit on it please good man
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Ah TOUCHE on the Plato and Octahedron reference. Very witty response. Razz

But then again... no extra POW is an additional BUFF to Blodgers and Elves.
No additional PUSH/POW makes for MORE people refusing to have ANY TACKLE but still complaining that Elves are too OP

You cannot make a change without BUFFING or NERFING something.
Why do Elves deserve a BUFF or NERF?
Why do Dwarves deserve a BUFF or NERF?

Maybe Lizardmen are the only race that would get BOTH a BUFF and a NERF to changes no matter which changes are made.

Your suggestions on what to do with the other 2 possible dice rolls are as GOOD and as BAD any anything anyone else could suggest.
And they are only GOOD or BAD based on what races you play (and perhaps how you play them).

You are seeking a solution to something that is NOT a problem.
And any change made is going to be a problem from 1 perspective or another.




MattDakka wrote:
If you speak like Plato, you should like the octahedron. Razz
Anyway, I didn't add an extra POW because it would change the chance of knocking down a Blodger (with AV roll) from 1/6 to 1/4.
I didn't add an extra Push/POW because it would change the chance of knocking down a Block player (with AV roll) from 1/3 to 3/8.
Not trying to persuade you, you are not a BB game designer, so it would be an exercise of futility. I just explain for the sake of constructive debate.
Also, that blocking is not broken it's arguable, it works quite well as it is but it could be improved.
I can remember more than one game where a drive was ruined by rolling too many double skulls (not to mention a double skull at start then a double skull later on the same turn or a quad skull).
With D8 rolling a double skull is 1/64, with D6 is 1/36.
More emphasis on positioning and blocking to advance, less chance of unlucky (and frustrating) double skulls.
King_Ghidra



Joined: Sep 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
...


I'm sure this thread will be locked soon, and I hope so because I've not seen so much discussion of a post so stupid for a long time here.

So in the name of dragging it down, I think you will have to die on your silly hill catalyst, because the difference between emphasis and 'shouting' is substantially insignificant. Punctuation exists to give the written word the nuanced meaning, structure and rhythm of speech. How do you imagine a spoken conversation would sound with someone who is emphasising in the way you do? And more to the point, have you ever read a text (not written by an internet madman) that uses capitalisation for emphasis in the way that you apparently believe it should? Is it possible that ALL the editors and typographers of the world hold an INCORRECT opinion and ONLY YOU understand the TRUE use of punctuation?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 11, 2021 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Ah TOUCHE on the Plato and Octahedron reference. Very witty response. Razz

Thanks!
Catalyst32 wrote:

But then again... no extra POW is an additional BUFF to Blodgers and Elves.
No additional PUSH/POW makes for MORE people refusing to have ANY TACKLE but still complaining that Elves are too OP

No, because there are 2 results on 8 which knock down blodgers:

3: Both Prone (no AV roll) and 8: POW (AV roll)

so, 25% to 1d knock down a Blodger without any blocking skills. With either Wrestle or Tackle it increases to 37.5%, with Wrestle and Tackle to 50%.


Catalyst32 wrote:
You cannot make a change without BUFFING or NERFING something.
Why do Elves deserve a BUFF or NERF?
Why do Dwarves deserve a BUFF or NERF?

The change's goals are:
1) reducing the chance of rolling double skulls;
2) allowing teams without core skills to stop Blodgers and to fail fewer blocks;
3) reducing the chance of -2d blocks knocking higher Strength players down;
4) making Big Guys with Loner more useful (because the chance of failing a block is lower and because high Strength players would not be knocked down as easily as now).
Think of Ogres, for example, they would be slightly buffed.
I didn't think about buffing or nerfing specific races, I just considered general aspects of the blocking system and tried to improve it.
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 01:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
NERDS

Hey!!!
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
The change's goals are:
1) reducing the chance of rolling double skulls;
2) allowing teams without core skills to stop Blodgers and to fail fewer blocks;
3) reducing the chance of -2d blocks knocking higher Strength players down;
4) making Big Guys with Loner more useful (because the chance of failing a block is lower and because high Strength players would not be knocked down as easily as now).
Ew. Why would you want any of that? Maybe #4 is not so bad, but 3+ Loner would solve that pretty handily, without any major changes. The other stuff, turning 1/36 to 1/64, say, makes the game less about risk management and more about resource development. Do you really need another Magic: the Gathering? We've already got one, you see? It's very nice. I like the d6 blocking die, it makes you sweat more. I do think d8 passing would be nice, but that's just because it's always risky no matter what dice you roll: I'd be equally happy with only three range bands and d6 passing. But otherwise, meh, I think what we've got is better than the "fixes" I'm seeing.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 18:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, today I rolled 4 double skulls in 38 blocks: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4288401.
I find way more interesting to play and sweat vs an opponent (fxiii is a very good opponent, not implying he is a lucker, but playing vs him is exacting enough without rolling 4 double skulls) than vs double skulls, but of course, horses for courses.
If you like D6 block dice, ok. Smile Matter of taste.
As an aside, it could be possible to use a D7 block dice:
1) skull
2) both down
3) both stand (no effect)
4) push
5) push
6) push/pow
7) pow

this way the double skull would happen 1/49 instead of 1/36. D7 would be the closest possible dice to D6 block dice. The problem is that a D7 is not included in the BB box, this is why I suggested the D8.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 19:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I have a thing for Platonic dice. I roll d20s for d% (ignoring the tens place), which drives my players crazy. D6 are cool, d8 are cool, but d7 ... that's worse than a d10, which is a d12 with two ends strangled off.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, if we want to talk about weird d%, a friend of mine had a d100: not two D10 or D20 rolled together, but a single dice with 100 sides, it looked like a sphere, bigger than a golf ball.
Absolutely not practical to roll during RPG sessions due to size and lack of stability, so, it could be worse for your friends if you loved that kind of d%! Razz
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Mar 12, 2021 - 19:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

And CAPITALIZING 1 or 2 words in a sentence is done for EMPHASIS of those words and has been for our entire lives.


Good evening, could you please refrain from using quite so many capitalised words for emphasis, please? It really is quite unbecoming of you.

If you really must use emphasis then please use italics. Thanks awfully.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic