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maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
maznaz wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
PurpleChest wrote:
i would always counter that my 'utopia' is somewhere everyone derives equal and maximum enjoyment from gaming the way they wish, without feeling the need to impose their personal choices upon others.

Automatic scheduling is the right and fair compromise between two coaches' personal and selfish choices.
It removes the picking problem and saves lot of time, thus increasing the number of fair games played.
If people want to pick they can still do it in League.
No problem with that, as long as you don't get CR Gamefinder is ok.

It's not the way I prefer, it's just the most logical and efficient way to arrange matches.
The way I'd prefer, to be accurate, is Cyanide MM, where you spin and find a game within 2-3 minutes, but, since here the number of coaches is lower, I accept to wait for a draw every 15 minutes.
Staring at the GF for hours is really a massive waste of time, also, sometimes I have to do RL stuff and miss the offers or the search stops after a while.


I agree with your thoughts on a scheduler. The idea of a competitive division where you choose your opponents has always been hilarious to me. You could speed up your time to find matches though by not avoiding my dwarfs for hours at a time Smile


AND CHECK.
Another coach from a European Time Zone who thinks forcing everyone into a format that only RELIABLY WORKS during the primary European Time Zones.

This site has coaches that are from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Canada, America, and other places who CANNOT get games through the Scheduler because there are not enough other Coaches to play against.

Just because in Europe everyone is AFRAID to play against other Coaches in games they might both enjoy doesn't mean the rest of the world does that exclusively.

You are FREE to have that unrealistic opinion because you do not have to spend hours looking for ANYONE to play. You can put your preferred teams in the scheduler and play right away.

The rest of us CANNOT use the damn thing most of the time.


An automated scheduler makes it easier to get games not harder.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
...we're just waiting for our teams back, eh.


And cut them to 1350? Why bother?

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 18:54 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
tussock wrote:
...we're just waiting for our teams back, eh.


And cut them to 1350? Why bother?


Because I know the Hellfish ID number by heart and I'm to lazy to learn a new one Very Happy

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 19:13 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

It removes the picking problem

No it does not, it just shifts the picking part from the "accepting the game" phase to the "Choosing what race I want to play, what meta I want to run and what shenanigan I can conceive to min-max" one.
This quote of yours particularly irks me because it sounds so true yet it is so, SO false. It just removes variety, and it imposes the "efficiency" standard on everything. I know you love it, but it is not the only way to play and it is not the only way to play competitively.
And the picking will NOT stop, it'll just change face. Case in point: in competitive you currently run Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Wood Elves and Orcs. I am sure you picked those four races at random, and not at all because they are among the best teams to minmax... That's picking, my friend, don't lie to yourself about it.

The fact that you don't want "fake high CRs" in your playroom is laughable, and frankly you should come to terms with the fact that pretty much nobody cares except you.

And again:
Let's say I want to run an all-orc-linos teams, and I want to roll only randoms, and I want to keep all of them and create a weird and fun team.
Why should I play using a tv matchup that will only pair me with teams that are objectively going to destroy me? (also, why should I feed you my fun project so you can grow your ego and boast about your CR?) Why shouldn't I be able to determine what I consider a fair game under my self-imposed circumstances and still get a rank out of it if I manage to perform? Stop telling people what's competitive and what is not, and stop presenting it as a fact ffs.

MattDakka wrote:

and saves lot of time

Which is not necessarily a primary concern for many people here.

MattDakka wrote:

thus increasing the number of fair games played.

Again, not necessarily true. Like Christer himself tried to explain, fairness is not an universal truth. The ability to gauge what is a fair game and what is an unbalanced one is part of what constitutes a good coach. Also, there's a recent thread about the fact that blackbox matchmaking is far from being the be all and end all of the pairing solutions, especially under bb2020, so maybe it's better to leave fairness out of this.

MattDakka wrote:

If people want to pick they can still do it in League. No problem with that, as long as you don't get CR.

How kind of you to let others play the way they want, provided they do it out of your sight (and reach).

MattDakka wrote:

It's not the way I prefer, it's just the most logical and efficient way to arrange matches.

For the love of God, and for the n-th time, stop stating personal views as facts.

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 20:12 Reply with quote Back to top

How about some radio discipline. Do we really have to repeat the same boring arguments on every. Single. Thread? Well at least this time there was bacon.

My personal utopia is a forum where people just don't jump over every stick held out to them. Wink
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 20:16 Reply with quote Back to top

hands up if you can go on gamefinder and get offered a decent, fun, winnable match within minutes

o/

bonus points if in the meantime you also get pinged to death by tier 1 hardliners (but only on your lower tier teams Twisted Evil )
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

On topic: I certainly won't be needing Ranked in the future so I am quite dispassionate about it. A league transfer option seems sensible but let's be honest, we still remember the fate of LRB4. And that was a much much better rules set than BB16.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 21:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Verminardo wrote:
On topic: I certainly won't be needing Ranked in the future so I am quite dispassionate about it. A league transfer option seems sensible but let's be honest, we still remember the fate of LRB4. And that was a much much better rules set than BB16.


In those days we didn't have custom rulesets & leagues.

I don't recall LRB4 being better than 2016. I do think that CRP was much better than 2020. Even with CPOMB.

I don't think that LRB4 lasted as long as Ranked already has after the new ruleset became live.

Edit: What I meant was, let it die naturally rather than killing it while some (few) people are still playing it.

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 22:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Did you guys ever try vegan bacon substitutes?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Medon wrote:
Did you guys ever try vegan bacon substitutes?


Are those the ones made from chicken?

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Medon wrote:
Did you guys ever try vegan bacon substitutes?


Today, actually. It's fine? Like, you're getting some umami out of it. My wife might prefer it to real bacon.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 23:50 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
.

I don't recall LRB4 being better than 2016. I do think that CRP was much better than 2020. Even with CPOMB.


You played 0 games in 2020 ruleset. Maybe you should try it for once before you form an opinion?

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Hahahaha koadah has been opinionated about the Box for about a hundred years without ever playing a single match in it.
MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2021 - 00:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Verminardo wrote:
Hahahaha koadah has been opinionated about the Box for about a hundred years without ever playing a single match in it.


A quick look at his profile which seems to feature 100+ blackbox matches shows this to be untrue. Why say it?
lemf



Joined: Jul 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2021 - 00:14 Reply with quote Back to top

I am looking forward to the transfer of teams from ranked. Having been working on gridfilling for absolutely years now and with 1 more win required to have completed a winning grid with all the same teams in LRB4 then done the grid twice more with the same teams in crp It would be great to do it again in the new rule set.
And yes I wait on gamefinder in ranked for almost 3 hours every night waiting for that last match.
Very Happy
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