| Poll |
| Is BB20 really a problem? |
| Yes. |
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18% |
[ 29 ] |
| I miss CLAWPOMB. |
|
10% |
[ 16 ] |
| Dwarfs still like it. |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Game should use 1d8 instead of 1d6. |
|
9% |
[ 15 ] |
| I've left fumbbl since the update and didn't even read this. |
|
7% |
[ 12 ] |
| Throw Team Mate is bugged. |
|
3% |
[ 5 ] |
| I will always find a way to minmax! |
|
11% |
[ 18 ] |
| Pie. |
|
24% |
[ 38 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 155 |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 19:32 |
 
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yup, and for me, that just means.. make worse stars. the core of 'don't have stars better than a developed player' shouldn't be removed just for that, instead you should have different stars. |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 19:47 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | I hate the pricing of stars; for me, development is a core part of blood bowl and right now, some stars are priced so cheaply that it is better to fire developed players in order to get a star that is even better. Stars should always be more expensive than a similarly developed player specifically to avoid this.
And a star that can do something no player can be developed into (a gutter runner on chaos dwarves, or MB+2) should be very expensive, and not normally seen.
I realize why (from a company's selling-model point of view) this occurs, but I think it's terrible for the game. |
Nelphine my counterpoint is it was clear in BB16/CRP that stars were almost universally overcosted. It was almost always (barring stunty teams) better to take a Wizard and bribe before you even thought about a star. When you had 400K or so in inducements then you might take a star
Right now it's clear the 'big three' are highly popular and probably still undercosted (Morg, Griff, Hakflem) but it doesn't feel like other stars like Borak, Akhorne, Zug or Willow etc. are 'undercosted' or even seen that often at all.
Your experience may vary from mine as I'm playing mostly in C and some tournaments rather then league play. But even in my 2020 tabletop league we saw Akhorne and Deeproot (on ogres and flings respectively) but no other stars. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 19:52 |
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| Garion26 wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | I hate the pricing of stars; for me, development is a core part of blood bowl and right now, some stars are priced so cheaply that it is better to fire developed players in order to get a star that is even better. Stars should always be more expensive than a similarly developed player specifically to avoid this.
And a star that can do something no player can be developed into (a gutter runner on chaos dwarves, or MB+2) should be very expensive, and not normally seen.
I realize why (from a company's selling-model point of view) this occurs, but I think it's terrible for the game. |
Nelphine my counterpoint is it was clear in BB16/CRP that stars were almost universally overcosted. It was almost always (barring stunty teams) better to take a Wizard and bribe before you even thought about a star. When you had 400K or so in inducements then you might take a star
Right now it's clear the 'big three' are highly popular and probably still undercosted (Morg, Griff, Hakflem) but it doesn't feel like other stars like Borak, Akhorne, Zug or Willow etc. are 'undercosted' or even seen that often at all.
Your experience may vary from mine as I'm playing mostly in C and some tournaments rather then league play. But even in my 2020 tabletop league we saw Akhorne and Deeproot (on ogres and flings respectively) but no other stars. |
I can't believe you never met Bomber Driddlesnot. I met him about five times in my 13 game so far in our League. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 19:54 |
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The thing is: star minis are a nice way to make a ton of money. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 20:00 |
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| Garion26 wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | I hate the pricing of stars; for me, development is a core part of blood bowl and right now, some stars are priced so cheaply that it is better to fire developed players in order to get a star that is even better. Stars should always be more expensive than a similarly developed player specifically to avoid this.
And a star that can do something no player can be developed into (a gutter runner on chaos dwarves, or MB+2) should be very expensive, and not normally seen.
I realize why (from a company's selling-model point of view) this occurs, but I think it's terrible for the game. |
Nelphine my counterpoint is it was clear in BB16/CRP that stars were almost universally overcosted. It was almost always (barring stunty teams) better to take a Wizard and bribe before you even thought about a star. When you had 400K or so in inducements then you might take a star
Right now it's clear the 'big three' are highly popular and probably still undercosted (Morg, Griff, Hakflem) but it doesn't feel like other stars like Borak, Akhorne, Zug or Willow etc. are 'undercosted' or even seen that often at all.
Your experience may vary from mine as I'm playing mostly in C and some tournaments rather then league play. But even in my 2020 tabletop league we saw Akhorne and Deeproot (on ogres and flings respectively) but no other stars. |
To counterpoint this: I think the amount of times Morg was taken in 2016, was perfect, and where stars should aim. They *should* be rare. That's why they are stars.
However, I agree, wizards are too cheap. I also believe they should be 200k (if not 225k). |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 20:09 |
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When I got into Blood Bowl, LRB5 was the new thing and FUMBBL was still on LRB4. The forums here were full of wailing and gnashing of teeth about how awful the new rules were and how LRB4 was superior and if FUMBBL switched to LRB5 everyone was going to quit! I was genuinely curious as to how much of this was "LRB4 did this better" and how much was "this is new and I don't like anything new!". When I look at the uproar whenever a new version of a game comes out, I always think of the scene in "Wayne's World" were Benjamin tells Garth that they're going to be making some changes to their show's format and Garth replies "We fear change".
So, now there's a new edition of Blood Bowl and I get to experience the changes first hand...and I don't like it. BUT!!! I swear, I gave it a chance before not liking it. As usual, there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth before the new rules dropped and, I admit, upon reading the rules I thought it looked like a big step back from CRP and BB2016 but I was determined to give it a try before settling on an opinion. I do think most of the complaints about the new edition did turn out to be valid. Passing has gotten wrecked. Elves did, indeed, take a huge hit. The league has not been overrun by short, bearded men, however. That hasn't happened and I don't think it will. Even if Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves are statistically superior (though the numbers say that they aren't), I think most people just don't like playing them because they're just not that fun. I do like a lot of changes to the Kick Off table but I really don't like Officious Ref. Losing a really good player before the game even starts really sucks. I'm glad Spiraling Expenses is gone. I never liked it.
I agree with what Christer and MattDakka said. One thing I'd add that hasn't been mentioned is that I really don't like all the new, goofy skills they've been adding. It's too much to remember. I keep having to look up what Treacherous is or whatever other silly skill a Star Player has. I also can't remember all the new Passing skills. I don't like the idea of redrafts but I haven't played with that yet so I'll refrain from judgement. Maybe it works out in the end by keeping everyone on an even level. Maybe firing a great player because I can't afford him will make me quit forever. I don't know. I also think that the Beer Boar is really stupid.
Overall, I'm not liking this edition but I don't HATE it, either. Some of the changes are better. Most are worse but they're not horrifically worse. Just minorly worse. I think that if I were to start a table top league, I'd just stick with BB2016 rules, though. I think the new edition doesn't do enough better to justify what it does worse. The fact that GW changed the Underworld roster to match the Skaven sprues and not because they needed a rework really shows that they don't know what they're doing. Also, I have no doubt that they added Snotlings to that roster just to sell minis. They totally broke that team by sheer ineptitude. I don't play any other GW games but I like to watch Warhammer and 40k games on youtube whilst I work and it's just painfully apparent that the people that write the rules for their games just don't know what they're doing. All they care about is selling overpriced minis. I think this game was better off when GW didn't care about it and I have no faith that this version or any newer versions is going to be better until they stop caring again and the fans take over once more. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 20:47 |
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what made bomber really good is the no-turnover bombs and wider access to him from teams who didn't dream to have such weapon
price stayed basically the same, can't say 10k difference is a huge change
I like an array of cheap flimsy stars, they do make for unique matches
thanks meku for the thread
now if everyone could limit their gripes to here, it would make the forum so much more enjoyable  |
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Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 21:23 |
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The impression I got when I first got into Blood Bowl was that the so called "rules" weren't much more than “guidelinesâ€. That the commish & the coaches decided how the game was played.
I joined Fumbbl when it was LRB4. I was a bit confused because the rulebook I had was LRB3. 
I went to Stuntyleeg.com & BB1 when Fumbbl was unable to go to LRB5.
I came back when we got CRP but dropped out of Ranked & Box when Fumbbl didn't nerf CPOMB.
I may have gone back when Fumbbl went to 2016 but the "Competitive" divisions didn't have Secret League rosters. 
I have played some 2020 in 145 Club. It is tolerable at low TV. Especially as I don’t skill my players.
The whole fantasy role play thing of growing a big & maybe famous team feels as though it has gone now. Same with famous players. The incentive to play “just one more game†and maybe get a skill. Maybe a double or stat.
I don’t like the 2020 rules. I don’t even like elements that most people will probably think are good.
The real deal breaker though is the redraft cut. That is not specific\ally 2020 as the commish sets the parameters. Yeah, I’ll be bending Razmus’s ear about that again soon enough. 
Even when I wasn’t playing there, there was still something special about Ranked/Box/Majors.
Now, it feels that a lot of that has been hollowed out.
That’s not “proper Blood Bowl†you might say. You’d never want to keep track of all those skills on table top.
It did feel like “proper Fumbbl†though. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 22:19 |
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Out of curiosity Koadah, do you follow NBFL? The average team there is 2500 tv |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 22:30 |
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Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 22:37 |
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You're my problem, yeah you. You know who I'm talking to. Yez it's you. You knows why. Hic. You bin looking at me funny all night.
Passing, sending people off for no reason on the kick off table, fouling being ridiculously overpowered, passing, Underworld having swarming, fouling being ridiculously overpowered, git allowing you to move after fouling and...passing. Just off the top of my head. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 22:49 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | | Out of curiosity Koadah, do you follow NBFL? The average team there is 2500 tv |
I don't. US time zone isn't it?
Is it staying 2016? |
Yes, US time zone, and no it's moving to 2020, but it's staying high tv. I was just curious if you had previously followed it, since it averages higher tv than majors. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 23:13 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | | Out of curiosity Koadah, do you follow NBFL? The average team there is 2500 tv |
I don't. US time zone isn't it?
Is it staying 2016? |
Yes, US time zone, and no it's moving to 2020, but it's staying high tv. I was just curious if you had previously followed it, since it averages higher tv than majors. |
Hmm. Interesting question.
I wonder how many people do follow leagues that they haven't played in.
People did follow Majors.
People could just drop their Majors team in rather than having to build it up from 1350 again as they will have to now.
Will it even work in 2020? Would people be better off cutting to 1500 and rocking stars, wizard etc?
My Dungeon Bowl rules & tiles are copyright 2002 so 2016 doesn't seem too bad.
I'd still like the option to have +2 DP & RSC |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Halfabrain
Joined: Jan 20, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 23:21 |
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I'm just going to come out and say it.
I prefer 2020. This may be because 90% of my games are with Goblins...
It also may be because one gets to play something other than Nurgle in literally every second game.
Plenty in 2016 I preferred tho. Pa skills are mostly stupid and wildly inaccurate is also stupid. |
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iena
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2022 - 23:33 |
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voted "Dwarfs still like it." (should have added Orc there)
In my view the only good news on BB2020 was the kickoff table.
Everything else was treated in a superficial way to say the least.
Passing, redrafting, useless skills, wording, costs and nefarious prayers.
(and all this without even looking at the Death Zone.. wont even start about it).
GW should hire some real coaches to do the job
(and having fumbbl as it is would have helped more than they suppose) |
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