| Poll |
| Is BB20 really a problem? |
| Yes. |
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18% |
[ 29 ] |
| I miss CLAWPOMB. |
|
10% |
[ 16 ] |
| Dwarfs still like it. |
|
14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Game should use 1d8 instead of 1d6. |
|
9% |
[ 15 ] |
| I've left fumbbl since the update and didn't even read this. |
|
7% |
[ 12 ] |
| Throw Team Mate is bugged. |
|
3% |
[ 5 ] |
| I will always find a way to minmax! |
|
11% |
[ 18 ] |
| Pie. |
|
24% |
[ 38 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 155 |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 10:59 |
 
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| ClayInfinity wrote: | ...
I am not telling people they're "wrong" for how they have their fun, but C div would not be competitive, it would be an spp farming exercise that would eliminate more casual players from being successful... |
I think that part of the problem with concentrating on being "competitive" is that you are going to lose some of these more casual coaches from the division completely.
It seems to me that this scheme is based around the Box trophy. Maybe this brutal cut should be Box only with "Open" being softer.
I think that shorter seasons that allowed teams to maintain a higher TV would go some way to keeping some of the pixel huggers in the division.
Having to cut to 1800 or (1600 like [SL]2020) might be a compromise. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 11:57 |
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| ClayInfinity wrote: | For those of you about building the 200spp Legend players, it is a big change, but for me, Blood Bowl as a game breaks down at high TV and becomes dominated by Chaos / Nurgle etc.
|
I agree, but on the other hand, if the game is about low-mid TV then it's dominated by other races, the strong starting ones.
Both things are bad because they narrow down the range of playable races (if you want to play with a competitive mindset).
If BB must be played at low-mid then the rosters' balance at low-mid TV should be improved.
It's pointless to play Vampires or Chaos for 15 games and then Season Re-Draft forces to fire some of them. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 12:27 |
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It would be nice if such sweeping statements would be prefaced by "imho" or "from my particular perspective"
Otherwise they tend to propagate and become mind worms with no proof whatsoever
What I'm hearing here is "chaos and vampires are more failure prone than tier 1 teams I play, therefore I can't bear risking my fake points by playing them in their early development stages"
People that actually like a challenge absolutely can and will have incredibly successful runs with those teams, AND reach fifteen games with a decent team that won't be destroyed during redraft.
Vampires, especially, don't need to redraft more than 4-5 players at most. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 12:37 |
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My sweeping statements are self-evident, but feel free to add "imho" or "from my particular perspective" or whatever you fancy. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 12:47 |
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What is self evident is that you're too risk-averse (other terms are available) to play tier 2 teams, but will babble about them nonetheless.
It's always revealing to check the number of games played with a certain roster when coaches pontificate on them. Healthy exercise when evaluating advice. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 12:50 |
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Too bad that in the Box I played basically all rosters apart from tier 3 after I realized the CR gain/loss ratio was not adequate. Feel free to check, the sample size is big enough to draw conclusions: https://fumbbl.com/p/statistics?c=MattDakka&division=10
If I could use my other teams from the Box I would play them too. Not my fault if they are still stuck there.
In CRP I could play Vampires, suck for some games, but then having a team able to do something. Now it's not possible anymore. I'm not going to struggle to build 2-3 Vampires without MVP nomination just to fire some of them after a couple of Seasons.
The same goes for Chaos and Nurgle.
But after all, you are the guy talking about my cowardice but refusing to play vs me, so what you you say has little value "imho" and "from my particular perspective" (I want to make you happy). |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:05 |
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If we were discussing developed teams in BB16, that could be relevant, but we're not.
The evidence from the games actually played says these teams are viable in bb20.
Your opinions are uninformed and based on speculation, because your record is 0/0/0 with these teams in [C]. Listing reasons why you're not playing them does not disprove the facts, it actually confirms the diagnosis: extant bipedal dinosaur, farmed for its meat and eggs. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:10 |
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| Java wrote: | | What is self evident is that you're too risk-averse (other terms are available) to play tier 2 teams, but will babble about them nonetheless. |
Ok, if we want to talk about BB2020 teams, I play Elven Union a lot (my most played BB2020 race in C: https://fumbbl.com/p/statistics?c=MattDakka&division=2), which is a tier 2 team.
Moreover, I play the 4 Elven teams, which, by definition, are high risk high reward, not risk-averse.
If I wanted to be risk-averse I would stick to bash and hybrid teams only. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %22, %2022 - %13:%Jun; edited 2 times in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:11 |
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| Java wrote: |
What I'm hearing here is "chaos and vampires are more failure prone than tier 1 teams I play, therefore I can't bear risking my fake points by playing them in their early development stages" |
You're all welcome to bring your all skelly teams to 145 Club to help impart some wisdom. 
In a "competitive" division, I think that teams will be more attractive if they are not terrible for most of their lives. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:20 |
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| Java wrote: | If we were discussing developed teams in BB16, that could be relevant, but we're not.
The evidence from the games actually played says these teams are viable in bb20.
Your opinions are uninformed and based on speculation, because your record is 0/0/0 with these teams in [C]. Listing reasons why you're not playing them does not disprove the facts, it actually confirms the diagnosis: extant bipedal dinosaur, farmed for its meat and eggs. |
Though, Chaos 45%, Nurgle 42%, Vamps 38% aren't the greatest. "viable" won't be everyone's cup of tea.
Edit: 2016/CRP looks more balanced so far IMO. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:35 |
|
There's an interesting effect, there, I believe. FUMBBL attracts a lot of new coaches, that try and taste a bit of everything, especially teams they never tried elsewhere because of lack of models or whatever.
If a team has a slow start, people will often abandon it. This skews the data in favour of teams that are reliable from the start, such as elves and bash teams with core skills.
Vamp teams that stick to it for a bit longer than 3-4 matches are actually quite well developed, believe it or not.
It would be interesting to look at stats that are limited to people that stuck with it for a dozen matches. But that is probably also self selecting and therefore biased. Statistics is hard 
EDIT
CRP stats are also influenced by high TV matches that are almost non existent in C
Nothing exists in a vacuum |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:41 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:41 |
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And, to add another important element, we don't have Season Re-Draft yet to properly judge the data.
Box Trophy would encourage people to stick to teams for 15 matches or so, that would help as well. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 13:42 |
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| koadah wrote: | But, um... wasn't that the argument? We're not going to get many high TV matches.
You can't adjust by games but you can TV. |
Yes, it would be interesting to compare TV<1100 winrates, for example. That probably approximates early stages really well. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 22, 2022 - 14:12 |
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| Java wrote: | | koadah wrote: | But, um... wasn't that the argument? We're not going to get many high TV matches.
You can't adjust by games but you can TV. |
Yes, it would be interesting to compare TV<1100 winrates, for example. That probably approximates early stages really well. |
You can look yourself but the oldies still look a bit better to me.
But that is not really the point. The point is that you'll have less time to get it back.
We (maybe  ) needed to trim the massive killers and ridiculous elves, but this throws out the baby with the bath water |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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| |
Gnomes are trash
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