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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2022 - 20:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a fraction of Treasury would be fun, like 20%, rounded down to the nearest 5k. That way, everyone has decisions to make.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2022 - 20:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:

I know what a hard cap is; I just am not in favour of it. I would much rather see the Vampire, or Dwarfs, pushed back to 1250 TV with 5 players rehired than to get to sit with the same 12 players at 1600 and just spending Treasury every game to keep themselves up there.

Maybe I was unclear: you can't re-buy players to stay at 1600 in a single game.
You play a game, then you buy players, stuff etc.
if after buying players, rrs or whatever your TV is higher than 1600 then you have to drop something before readying your team. Once the purchase phase is over you can't re-hire players, rr, Apo and staff, with my idea.
You can't fire players to drop below 1600 and re-hire them after the same game.
You can drop players to get below 1600, play a game, then you can re-buy players and so on, but not buy-re-hire after a single game.
If you do this every game you should not be able to have so much gold to hover just under 1600, in theory.
Also, skilled players could be injured and you could have to replace them, so it's not as easy to plan (I know well this because I did TV-hovering in the Box, in case you were wondering).
Moreover, if this exploit you say gets common the simple fix is adding a cap to the Treasury as well, for example 200k or 150k. That way it's hard to use Treasury to do the TV hovering at 1600.

Well, if you want Vampires to be pushed back to 1250, fine, horses for courses, but I would not like it if I were playing Vampires. Very Happy I would not play Vampires at all. Or maybe I could, but first I should get the Mark of Slaanesh and enjoy the pain!
I mean, either ALL the coaches in my league have to do some re-build or nobody should, otherwise the rebuilding coaches are at a disadvantage. A league is supposed to be fun: being often, if not always, on rebuilding stage is boring and frustrating, especially with certain races.
RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Jul 09, 2022 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Is there an eta for re-draft in C?
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 10, 2022 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer kinda answered that question here: Black Box ETA thread

Christer wrote:
I don't have ETAs for things involving large amounts of development work any more in an attempt at not creating pressure and stress for myself. To give you an idea, though, the new Blackbox won't be in place before redrafting and season support. It is, however, something I really want to get to sooner rather than later as is reviving major tournaments and the Blackbox Trophy system.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 10, 2022 - 04:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Speaking of which.. the Black Box trophy..

I was musing the other day about how the amazing Malmir takes part in so many FUMBBL events, such as majors, Rookie Rumbles, and the Black Box trophy, often with award winning results, and maintains such an incredibly high CR while doing so, and comparing that with someone who takes part in absolutely nothing in the way of events, and plays only by his own rules, in some kind of strange CR yo-yo quest. Playing as part of something larger, like a tournament, or the Box Trophy, it just seems so much.. 'healthier' to me, participating with others in a way that allows people to acknowledge your successes, and also be interested in, and able to acknowledge the successes of your rivals. It feels good to be part of something.

Anyway.. I was looking at Malmir's 'Won Tournaments' section, as was surprised to NOT see an acknowledgement of Black Box Trophy results. In my mind, participating in something like that, with so much healthy competition, the Trophy that adds so much life to the Black Box environment for all to benefit from, I'd like to petition for this event to be added to the 'Won Tournaments' section in the future. I think the BB2020 redraft rules will bring a bunch of life back to the 'Box', and when I look up a coach's background, I would love to know if he has ever done well in such an important and 'healthy' event.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 10, 2022 - 05:48 Reply with quote Back to top

i am dearly hoping for a version of the black box trophy that will work with teams you've already played.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 10, 2022 - 12:50 Reply with quote Back to top

It would be great if the "won tournaments" links pointed to the actual tournaments (events) that coaches have won rather than just the group page.

In don't think that we need to e getting into all this about "healthier" stuff. People can compete for whatever appeals to them. BBT & CCL both require brand new teams so won't be everyone's cup of tea.

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BlackBart



Joined: Dec 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

The biggest complaint regarding the new passing skill is the players with a - passing ability. Anyone who can pick up a ball should be able to throw it on at least a 6+

Look at what this does to necros, they have exactly 4 players (2 wolves, 2 ghouls) who can pass at all now. So that means the ability to do those turn 16 panic passes to tie the score are almost impossible for them now.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 19:32 Reply with quote Back to top

If you play Necro you must have bad passing, they are a hybrid running team.
That said, I would let Zombies pass, but not on a 6+ on a D6.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

BlackBart wrote:
The biggest complaint regarding the new passing skill is the players with a - passing ability. Anyone who can pick up a ball should be able to throw it on at least a 6+

Look at what this does to necros, they have exactly 4 players (2 wolves, 2 ghouls) who can pass at all now. So that means the ability to do those turn 16 panic passes to tie the score are almost impossible for them now.


I love that panic turn 16 passes aren't a thing anymore. I really really disliked losing wins because of those.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 20:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:

I love that panic turn 16 passes aren't a thing anymore. I really really disliked losing wins because of those.

It is one of the things that puts me off Necro in the new rules.

Sure I never what to making a turn 8 or 16 pass but sometimes you can steal the ball and have an opportunity to counter score. (Or, you know, your own drive went badly)

MattDakka wrote:
If you play Necro you must have bad passing, they are a hybrid running team.
That said, I would let Zombies pass, but not on a 6+ on a D6.

There is no reason you have too other than that is how the rules currently stand.
I do not think you are going to get much traction for your D8 passing here.

I do not mind the concept of PA - players but I think it should be limited to a very few such as Minotours.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Not looking for any traction, just saying that imho and from my particular perspective even Zombies should be able to pass, but the pass should be harder than a 16.66%.
I'm not obsessed by D8, it could be a D10, 2D6 (BB 2nd edition), or a 6 on a D6 followed by a 4+ (for example, as seen in WHFB shooting to-hit-roll).
I suggested a D8 for the practical reason it's included in the BB boxed set.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 20:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
BlackBart wrote:
The biggest complaint regarding the new passing skill is the players with a - passing ability. Anyone who can pick up a ball should be able to throw it on at least a 6+

Look at what this does to necros, they have exactly 4 players (2 wolves, 2 ghouls) who can pass at all now. So that means the ability to do those turn 16 panic passes to tie the score are almost impossible for them now.


I love that panic turn 16 passes aren't a thing anymore. I really really disliked losing wins because of those.


Well, there's not just the 6+ pass for the score. There's also punting, which is often a valid defensive tactic in itself, even on a 4+ pickup zombie.
Now they simply don't have it on the vast majority of players, and that is a sad thing. Nobody should be denied tactical flexibility just cuz.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 20:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, punting adds tactical depth to the options. Maybe PA - players should be able to throw the ball, but it should be Inaccurate in the best scenario. That would allow to try a punt, at least.
Still better than no passing at all.
By the way, if I think of a Zombie passing, Wildly Inaccurate result seems really fitting. Very Happy
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 13, 2022 - 21:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:
Nelphine wrote:

I love that panic turn 16 passes aren't a thing anymore. I really really disliked losing wins because of those.

It is one of the things that puts me off Necro in the new rules.

Sure I never what to making a turn 8 or 16 pass but sometimes you can steal the ball and have an opportunity to counter score. (Or, you know, your own drive went badly)


Nah, this is exactly why I love the new rules change. Not only should you never WANT to do a punt or an end to end counter score with a skeleton.. you shouldn't be able to either. I'm very very happy with this.

I wish they'd gone further and made human lineman 5+ PA, and then everything balanced around that.
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