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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 05, 2023 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

heh, maybe i'll do another version of that here (by that i mean, buried in the conversation), just to show where it stands. bomber for instance would have an expected price of 145k. fungus would have an expected price of 130k. and nobbla would have an expected price of 120k.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 00:24 Reply with quote Back to top

The basic version, purely with 'best positional to get the cheapest price, using prices for that positional; all specials are worth 30k, and all mutations are considered secondary if no access is given for them'.

Note, this does not tell you ANYTHING about how good a star is. This just shows that the baseline players have no semblance of balance at all if you build completely crazy stars out of them.

DO NOT USE THIS LIST FOR ANY REASON.

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Bomber Dribblesnot: 50k (-70%) - extremely cheap for what he does, particularly compared to the chainsaw stars
Baseline.. Goblin Bomma? 45k
Accurate, Right Stuff, +PA, Kaboom
+40k +30k +20k +30k = 165k

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Cindy Piewhistle: 50k (-65%) - similar to Bomber above, but the special is a little bit worse
Baseline.. Goblin Bomma? 45k
Accurate, Right Stuff, +PA, -MA, -AV, All you can Eat
+40k +30k +20k -10k -10k +30k = 145k

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Akhorne the Squirrel: 80k (-63%)
Baseline.. Ogre Gnoblar? 15k
No Right Stuff, +MA, +MA, +AG, Dauntless, Frenzy, Claws, No Hands, Blind Rage
-10k +20k +20k +40k +40k +40k +40k -20k +30k = 215k

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Bryce 'the Slice' Cambuel: 130k (-54%)
Baseline.. Goblin Looney? 40k
No Stunty, -MA, -AG, Regeneration, +ST, Stand Firm, Thick Skull, +AV, Ghostly Flames
+30k -10k -10k +30k +80k +40k +40k +10k +30k = 280k

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Puggy Baconbreath: 120k (-49%)
Baseline.. Thrall? 40k
+PA, Block, Dodge, Nerves of Steel, -MA, -AV, Right Stuff, Stunty, Loner (3+), Halfling Luck
+20k +20k +40k +40k -10k -10k +30k +30k +5k +30k = 235k

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Helmut Wulf: 140k (-48%)
Baseline.. Goblin Looney? 40k
No Stunty, +ST, Pro, Stand Firm, +AV, Old Pro
+30k +80k +40k +40k +10k +30k = 270k

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Max Spleenripper: 130k (-48%)
Baseline.. Goblin Looney? 40k
No Stunty, +S, +S, +AV, -MA, -AG, Maximum Carnage
+30k +80k +80k +10k -10k -10k +30k = 250k

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Fungus the Loon: 80k (-43%)
Baseline.. Goblin Fanatic? 70k
+MA, Mighty Blow (+1), Whirling Dervish
+20k +20k +30k = 140k

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Scrappa Sorehead: 130k (-40%)
Baseline.. Goblin Pogoer? 75k
Dirty Player (+1), Sprint, Sure Feet, Right Stuff, Yoink!
+40k +20k +20k +30k +30k = 215k

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Ripper Bolgrot: 250k (-32%)
Baseline.. Mummy? 125k
+MA, +ST, +PA, +PA, +PA, Grab, Throw Team-Mate, Thinking Man's Troll
+20k +80k +20k +20k +20k +20k +30k +30k = 365k

Image + Image
Dribl + Drull: 190k (-32%)
Baseline.. Skinks? 120k
Sidestep, Sidestep, Dirty Player (+1), Sneaky Git, Stab, A Sneaky Pair
+20k +20k +40k +20k +30k +30k = 280k

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Zolcath the Zoat: 230k (-31%)
Baseline.. Mummy? 125k
+MA, +MA, Disturbing Presence, Prehensile Tail, Juggernaut, Sure Feet, Excuse me, are you a Zoat?
+20k +20k +40k +40k +20k +40k +30k = 335k

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Hakflem Skuttlespike: 210k (-28%)
Baseline.. Underworld Gutter Runner? 85k
+S, +PA, Extra Arms, Prehensile Tail, Two Heads, No animosity, Treacherous
+80k +20k +20k +20k +20k +10k +30k = 295k

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Barik Farblast: 80k (-27%)
Baseline.. Dwarf Runner? 85k
Cannoneer, Hail Mary Pass, Pass, +PA, -AG, Blast It, Secret Weapon
+20k +20k +20k +20k -10k +30k -75k = 110k

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Grim Ironjaw: 200k (-25%)
Baseline.. Troll Slayer? 95k
+S, +AG, Multiple Block, Slayer
+80k +40k +20k +30k = 265k

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Lord Borak the Despoiler: 260k (-24%)
baseline.. Chaos Warrior? 100k
+S, Block, Mighty Blow (+1), Sneaky Git, Dirty Player (+2), Lord of Chaos
+80k +20k +20k +40k +50k +30k = 340k

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Withergrasp Doubledrool: 170k (-24%)
Baseline.. Rotter? 35k
+MA, +PA, +PA, Prehensile Tail, Tackle, Tentacles, Two Heads, Wrestle, Watch Out!
+20k +20k +20k +20k +20k +20k +20k +20k +30k = 225k

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Varag Ghoul-Chewer: 280k (-23%)
Baseline.. Khorne Bloodseeker? 115k
Replace Frenzy with Mighty Blow (+1), +ST, +MA, +AG, Block, Thick Skull, Jump Up, Crushing Blow
+0k +80k +20k +40k +20 +20k +40k +30k = 365k

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Morg 'n' Thorg: 380k (-22%)
Baseline.. Ogre? 140k
No Bonehead, +MA, +ST, +AG, +AV, +PA, Block, Mighty Blow (+2), Naturally loner, The Ballista
+70k +20k +80k +40k +10k +20k +40k +30k +10k +30k = 490k

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Deeproot Strongbranch: 280k (-22%)
Baseline.. Halfling Treeman? 120k
No Take Root, +S, +PA, Block, Mighty Blow (+2), Reliable
+40k +80k +20k +40k +30k +30k = 360k

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Griff Oberwald: 280k (-21%)
Baseline.. High Elf Blitzer? 100k
+ST, +AG, +PA, Dodge, Fend, Sprint, Sure Feet, Loner (3+) , Consummate Professional
+80k +40k +20k +20k +20k +20k 20k +5k +30k = 355k

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Willow Rosebark: 150k (-21%)
Baseline.. Chaos Warrior? 100k
Dauntless, Thick Skull, Sidestep, -PA, -AV, Indomitable
+20k +20k +40k -10k -10k +30k = 190k

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Scyla Anfingrimm: 200k (-20%)
Baseline.. Bloodbeast? 160k
Thick Skull, +AV, Prehensile Tail, Naturally Loner, Fury of the Blood God
+20k +10k +20k +10k +30k = 250k

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Wilhelm Chaney: 220k (-20%)
Baseline.. Werewolf? 125k
+S, Catch, Wrestle, Savage Mauling
+80k +20k +20k +30k = 275k

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Kreek Rustgouger: 170k (-19%)
Baseline.. Goblin Fanatic? 70k
-AG, +MA, +MA, +AV, +AV, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, I'll Be Back
-10k +20k +20k +10k +10k +20k +40k +30k = 210k

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Gloriel Summerbloom: 150k (-17%)
Baseline.. Wood Elf Thrower? 95k
Accurate, Dodge, Sidestep, Sure Hands, -S, Loner (3+), Shot To Nothing
+20k +20k +20k +20k -30k +5k +30k = 180k

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Grashnak Blackhoof: 240k (-16%)
Baseline.. Minotaur? 150k
+MA, +ST, Naturally loner, Gored by the Bull
+20k +80k +5k +30k = 285k

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The Black Gobbo: 225k (-15%)
Baseline.. Goblin Bomma? 45k
No Secret Weapon, Stab, Sneaky Git, +PA, +AV, Disturbing Presence, Side Step, Sneakiest of the Lot
+50k +30k +20k +20k +10k +40k +20k +30k = 265k

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Glart Smashrip: 195k (-15%)
Baseline.. Big 'un? 90k
Grab, Block, Claws, Juggernaut, Stand Firm, -AV, Frenzied Rush
+20k +20k +40k +20k +20k -10k +30k = 230k

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Karla Von Kill: 210k (-11%)
Baseline.. Human Eagle Warrior? 50k
+S, Block, Dauntless, Jump Up, Indomitable
+80k +20k +20k +40k +30k = 240k

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Gretchen Wächter 'The Blood Bowl Widow': 260k (-9%)
Baseline.. Wraith? 95k
Replace Block with Dodge, Disturbing Presence, +MA, Jump Up, Shadowing, +AG, Incorporeal
+0k +40k +20k +40k +20k +40k +30k = 285k

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Eldril Sidewinder: 230k (-8%)
Baseline.. High Elf Catcher? 90k
Dodge, Nerves of Steel, On the Ball, Hypnotic Gaze, Mesmerizing Dance
+20k +40k +40k +30k +30k = 250k

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Glotl Stop: 270k (-7%)
Baseline.. Kroxigor? 140k
+ST, Frenzy, Stand Firm, Animal Savagery instead of Bonehead, Primal Savagery, Naturally Loner
+80k +20k +20k -10k +30k +10k = 290k

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Frank 'n' Stein: 250k (-6%)
Baseline.. Flesh Golem? 115k
+S, Break Tackle, Mighty Blow (+1), Brutal Block
+80k +20k +20k +30k = 265k

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Mighty Zug: 220k (-6%)
Baseline.. Bloodseeker? 115k
replace Frenzy with Mighty Blow (+1), +ST, -MA, Block, Crushing Blow
+0k, +80k, -10k, +20k, +30k = 235k

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Estelle la Veneaux: 190k (-5%)
Baseline.. Amazon Eagle Warrior? 50k
Sidestep, Guard, Disturbing Presence, Baleful Hex
+40k +40k +40k +30k = 200k

Image + Image
Lucien Swift + Valen Swift: 340k (-4%)
Baseline.. High Elf Blitzer + Wood Elf Thrower? 195k
Mighty Blow, Tackle, -PA, Accurate, Nerves of Steel, Safe Pass, Sure Hands, Two for One
+40k +20k -10k +20k +20k +20k +20k +30k = 355k

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Roxanna Darknail: 270k (-4%)
Baseline.. Witch Elf? 110k
+MA, +AG, +PA, Juggernaut, Leap, Burst of Speed
+20k +40k +20k +40k +20k +30k = 280k

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Bilerot Vomitflesh: 180k (-3%)
Baseline.. Ogre? 140k
No Bonehead, Dirty Player (+1) instead of Mighty Blow (+1), Foul Appearance instead of Thick Skull, Disturbing Presence instead of Throw Team-Mate, -MA, -PA, -PA, Naturally Loner, Putrid Regurgitation
+25k +0k +0k +00k -10k -10k -10k +10k +30k = 185k

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Boa Kon’ssstriktr: 200k (+0%)
Baseline.. Amazon Eagle Warrior? 50k
+AV, Safe Pair of Hands, Sidestep, Hypnotic Gaze, Look Into My Eyes
+10k +40k +40k +30k +30k = 200k

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Nobbla Blackwart: 130k (+0%)
Baseline.. Goblin Looney? 40k
Block, Dodge, Kick'em while they're down!
+40k +20k +30k = 130k

Image + Image
Grak and Crumbleberry: 250k (+6%)
Baseline.. Ogre Runt Punter + Halfling? 175k
Naturally loner, Sure Hands, -PA, -PA, Two for One
+10k +40k -10k -10k +30k = 235k

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Skrull Halfheight: 150k (+7%)
Baseline.. Thro-Ra? 70k
+AV, Accurate, Nerves of Steel, -PA, Strong Passing Game
+10k +20k +20k -10k +30k = 140k

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Skrorg Snowpelt: 250k (+9%)
Baseline.. Yhetee? 140k
No Unchannelled Fury, Replace Frenzy with Mighty Blow (+1), Juggernaut, Naturally loner, Pump up the Crowd
+30k +0k +20k +10k +30k = 230k

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Ivar Eriksson: 245k (+20%)
Baseline.. Chaos Warrior? 100k
Block, Tackle, Guard, +PA, Loner (3+), -AV, Raiding Party!
+20k +20k +20k +20k +5k -10k +30k = 205k

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Rumblelow Sheepskin: 170k (+21%)
Baseline.. Beastman? 60k
Block, Tackle, Juggernaut, Thick Skull, No Hands, -AV, Ram
+20k +20k +20k +20k -20k -10k +30k = 140k

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Grombrindal, the White Dwarf: 210k (+24%)
Baseline.. Dwarf Blitzer? 80k
Dauntless, Mighty Blow (+1), Stand Firm, Wisdom of the White Dwarf
+20k +20k +20k +30k = 170k

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Thorsson Stoutmead: 170k (+89%)
Baseline.. Norse Raider? 50k
-AG, +PA, Beer Barrel Bash!
-10k +20k +30k = 90k


Do not use this list, for any reason. It is SO bad.
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 02:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry why do you think it’s that off? Your point is we can math how discounted stars are versus what they “should” cost. It’s very clear what they should cost and what they do cost aren’t always the same.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 02:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Because I firmly believe that players can be built in an effective manner, and they can be built in an inefficient manner.

You CAN build a human blitzer with 6 chosen agility skills.
You can also build a human catcher with 6 chosen strength skills.

But if you do them in the reverse order they are far more efficient.

From the second list, we can see that the prices are absolutely all over the place. From this, we would have to assume that they are not always built efficiently, but sometimes they are. However, when you are going to buy a star, you will always purchase them ASSUMING they are built efficiently - because you are comparing against your own players who are also built efficiently.

So, then the prices, if they are going to matter for being used, must assume that ALL stars are built efficiently (meaning, none of them are human catchers built with 6 strength skills). That means, despite the baseline player officially not being efficient, we can get a far more accurate view of the stars for comparing to each other, if we assume they are mostly built efficiently.

So, based on other rules comments that have floated around from various people, we can assign more realistic costs to special abilities (not having stunty should not cost the same as hypnotic gaze) based on what GW has already assigned to those special abilities in various places elsewhere.

Then, we can LARGELY guess at better costs for secondary vs primary, in order to price the players as if they were efficient picks; and since actual rostered players usually have skills cost as if they were random primaries, we can also guess that most stars will have 1-2 skills cost as if they were base skills for the magical positional they're actually from, and therefore is cost as if it were a random primary.


I intend to post up the complete set of rules I'm using, and try to make sure it's as consistent as possible. This may of course result in some other minor tweaks, but shouldn't change much - Fanatics being the obvious discussion point. I haven't heard other comments about them yet.


But most importantly, my first list on the first post, roughly matches actual value on the pitch. From there we can guess that the efficient design is actually far closer to the truth than the last post which is ... mostly just utter randomness that doesn't help anyone.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 12:10 Reply with quote Back to top

i love this thread Smile

From memory of the BBRC during lrb5 and 6 the aim typically was to have the stars approx 30% more expensive than they should be. Obviously they wanted to sell more star players this edition...

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it is very interesting to see how a whole variety of different ways of looking at the costs (and indeed seeing what people actually choose in real life and what people said as soon as certain stars were announced) all converge on some stars being wildly undercosted, and yet GW allowed this to happen in the first place and also haven't fixed it for anything bar NAF style tournaments.

That is the real lesson here

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Last edited by Seventyone on Jan 06, 2023 - 19:48; edited 1 time in total
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 16:50 Reply with quote Back to top

"Cause it's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny"

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Star Only Roster - Testing
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally, I wish they would realize the 10% rule. Stars in that range are generally accepted as strong enough to want to take, but not so strong that the opposing player hates them. If they boosted all the weaker ones into that range, and dropped the mega stars into that range, I think people would be buying ALL the stars, instead of just focusing on the best ones.

Bomber at 100
Cindy at 90
Griff at 315
Hakflem at 230
Morg at 410

Deeproot at 300
Borak at 270

Glotl at 260
Puggy at 110
Frank at 235
Roxanna at 245
Ivar at 220
Swift Twins at 305
Akhorne at 75

White Dwarf at 180
Skrorg at 215
Barik at 70
Willow at 135
Helmut at 110
Max at 105
Rumblelow at 130
Bryce at 100
Boa at 170
Grak and Crumbleberry at 190
Skrull at 120
Nobbla at 95
Gretchen at 175
Thorsson at 120

Edit: I specifically didn't include the 2 fanatics, as I still don't have consensus on where they 'should' be. My current rule is to cut upgrade costs in half, due to -2d blocks removing them from the game so easily. But that means that no one should ever skill a fanatic, which in turn means that fanatics are just bloat no one should use. I simply don't have experience with Goblins enough to justify this position, aside from playing against them, and using fanatic type players in the Nuffle league.
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 17:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Seventyone wrote:
I think it is very interesting to see how a whole variety of different ways of looking at the costs (and indeed seeing what people actually choose in real life and what people said as soon as certain stars were announced) all converge on some stars being wildly undercoated, and yet GW allowed this to happen in the first place and also haven't fixed it for anything bar NAF style tournaments.

That is the real lesson here


Seventyone while I appreciate the analysis Nelphine is doing the reality is a few stars are used commonly and seen as meta changing and the rest are seen very rarely and often seen as fairly useless.

GW charges far more money for the forgeworld resin Gretchen/Willow/Grashnak then they do on the plastic included in every started set Griff. But there is NO question Griff is miles better and miles more effective. Arguably the consensus best star in BB2020 is 'free' with purchase of every starter set.

Our data on FUMBBL on the two majors really show the main stars used were the big four and win loss rates outside of Bomber were 50-50 for the remain three. In a world where price of the miniature wasn't an impediment smart coaches only really used the big 4. Our next major saw zug used several times by one coach who used him consistently but otherwise similar breakdown of stars taken.
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=32346&start=135

@Nelphine
Not sure I understand your second analysis in the context your following comment. I had thought your second analysis was just "I used the existing closest player and then costed skills from that" in response to my suggestion
'just use the existing closest player costs rather then including value judgements on whether fanatics and chainsaws intrinsically are overpriced'


I wasn't encouraging to change your skill costing except my previous comment that skills that don't make sense for that players role (DP on Borak for example) could reasonably be costed as random skills rather then selected skills. That's actually in agreement with your point that you have to assume the stars cost was in context of them leveling intelligently.



Or are you just saying your first list is 'here's what I think this star should cost. . .and I've added some math to dress up my gestalt of the price' Your last paragraph seems to imply that. In which case we could have a lot of debate even now (see UI data above) lots of the stars outside the big four don't seem to be worth their current price compared to other available inducements.

I don't disagree with the groupings nor the idea of doing the math on price - but the math is more understandable if there isn't personal fudge factor. I think the reality is price/skills/math probably means Akhorne for example or Bryce sound a lot better then they actually are in practice and that's okay. We know the math doesn't capture the story of what makes a star good (because sprint, sure feet, Move 8 strength 4 agility 2+ blodge is REALLY good and move 5 strength 3 agility 3+ isn't even if in both cases it's blodge and strength up.)
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 18:04 Reply with quote Back to top

ah, no. sorry, i thought you were implying the second list was better than the first list. my apololgies.

Yes, for the first list, i'm specifically trying to use a formula to come up with prices. Then I compare with what the star is in reality, to see if my formula is right. If there is a problem, I try to change the formula (which may have repurcussions on other stars - Karla, Willo and Grim are a good example of this, where I couldn't get what i 'wanted' for each of them, because they are too similar, and I need to have an underlying formula that works for all stars, not just what I feel about specific stars).

Now that I understand your concern is more about the fanatics, I am still using a formula for them.

It just happens to be that I think the formula for ball and chain is that you have to half the value of any upgrades they get, because of -2D blocks. In turn, this means that, on the real player, any upgrade isn't worth it unless its gained.. at half cost. Which they obviously can't be. Which in turn means, no upgrade on a fanatic is EVER worth it (unless they already have block, as that would remove the penalty of the -2d - but because they don't have block before they get block, block itself would have to be halved, in which case only random block is ever worth it, and only then are any other upgrades worth it.)
Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 19:53 Reply with quote Back to top

@garion26

I'm not saying it's all about money for GW (although others are saying that) but rather their lack of attention to detail or thought. In general I always go for incompetence rather than malevolence as a most likely explanation for something (in general, not just when discussing GW or any other gaming publisher) and I think it is true for this specific example too.

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Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 19:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah but I really don't think that's the way people think of fanatics normally and is tied to your biases on the position. Mercs/fanatics/chainsaws are places where you have some strong opinions that I don't think are widely shared - they aren't 'wrong' but not so universal that you can use them as implicit baseline assumptions in the model.

Strength 7 potentially 3 blocks/semifouls per turn for 70K is actually pretty great in context of the goblin team and I think would be attractive to a lot of teams if they could get access to it without loner. I'd likely take it over a babe in any low TV bash matchup and would consider it against a bribe.

The problem is it looks like "I'm showing you how much a star would cost if you built it normally as a rostered player" when in actually you are doing 'I've got a formula on how much I think stars should cost and the number I'm showing you is the stars actual cost vs the results of my non transparent formula' See comments from others on page 6 who are interpreting it as objective math 'see star players are too cheap compared to what they should cost and are all broken.'

Best way to test your formula - compare your calculated price vs a similar non star player inducement or combination of inducements. How often would that player be selected over some combination of a babe/bribe/wizard which are the three most commonly selected non star inducements.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

sure, but my formula specifically doesn't try to address non star player inducements. its still based on players, and the rulebook/unofficial versions of player and skill costs.

however, i have added in where wizard would go, but the formula for wizard is 'wizard = x amount'. The math is not super ultra deep. the only reason i put wizard in, was because i think there is enough agreement within the community to say its tier 2, and so then I simply found an expected value that would put it in that tier.

so, with fanatics in particular, i still assume a 70k fanatic is a decent price - i have to assume that all players are a decent price. its not actually true (and i'm not saying its not true for fanatics, just as a general statement, i think we can agree that there exists at least one positional which is not a decent price), but i don't have the luxury of using such information.

so, i start with the baseline player.

i then look at the role of the player.
- based on that role, i pick 0-2 skills which are considered random primaries, intended to match what a starting player would have. This usually means things like dauntless, thick skull and disturbing presence are considered a random primary.
- based on that role, i pick 0-2 skills which are considered chosen secondary, intended to match what a player of that role might take as being extremely important, but which isn't usually a skill that you start with for that role or the baseline player. This usually means things like guard (no matter what access they have, as guard is just amazing on stars), tackle, dodge for a player without A access but who wants to be a ball handler, and sidestep on a player without A access with at least 2 great synergy with sidestep (such as guard or disturbing presence or certain specials).
- based on that role, all other skills are considered chosen primary, or random secondary. As these are the same cost, it ends up looking the same, but things like sure feet on a player without A access would be a random secondary.
- all stat increases are done by the book, unless its obviously very bad. For instance, a no hands player has half price +MA, and +AG. Akhorne, due to stunty and titchy, gets +AG for even less than that. This rule then also applies to ball and chain - similar to a no hands player, all stats for a ball and chain player are halved because they probably won't get to use them very long. Other similar rules are for +ST if you have a chainsaw, or +ST if you have dauntless, +PA if you have bad agility.

Basically, if a player would arguably never take a particular stat upgrade on a normal player, because of other skills they have, it will get a discount on star players with that combination.

Special skills are +5 to +60, depending on impact. Hypnotic gaze on agi 2+ is +60. Indomitable on a S4 player is +5k. DP +2 is down to +30k, and the skink pair special is +20k, as its similar to DP +2, but slightly worse.

Loner 4+ is assumed as baseline. If the baseline player ALSO has loner 4+, then they get an arbitrary +10k. If the star only has Loner 3+, then that's worth +5k.
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
Because I firmly believe that players can be built in an effective manner, and they can be built in an inefficient manner.
you will always purchase them ASSUMING they are built efficiently - because you are comparing against your own players who are also built efficiently.


Very bold of you to assume I build players efficiently Nelphine.... Very very bold.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2023 - 21:25 Reply with quote Back to top

i am indeed a bold person. (but also, doing any kind of mathematical approach has to be based on SOMETHING, and so basing it on efficiency will provide far more balanced results than basing it on inefficiency. And if you should happen to get more benefit out of stars, because your own players are inefficient, well, bonus for you!)
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