Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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 Posted:
Dec 17, 2022 - 12:47 |
 
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With the new inducement rules gold has become almost useless. Because of that I think the concession penalties are way too mild now.
Is it possible to do something about this? |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Dec 17, 2022 - 12:57 |
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Not sure I agree it'll make that much of a difference. Snotling and Halflings will be about the only ones who get hit notably in my mind. Certainly not sure I see a direct link between new inducement process and a theoretical increase in concessions...I'm genuinely interested in your logic here.
All we can do is report those how might concede frequently as it's against the Fummbl rules.
Not sure Christer will want to 'house rule' the impact of concessions.
The big concession risk is the retirement of skilled players in my mind. |
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Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:03 |
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Before whe gold was useful I didn't mind a concession as I got extra gold to use for scumming. Now my Ogre team has 420k in treasury that can't be used for anything. Getting extra gold from concessions is worth nothing. Also losing gold for conceding is less of a penalty. Losing skilled players can only happen if you have them. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:18 |
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The purpose of the concession rules have never been to reward the person being conceded to. |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:24 |
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So in theory it might reduce the amount of teams build purely to try and force a concession win..... personally that doesn't seem like a bad thing |
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Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:27 |
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It seems like a reward to get all the gold, it's just not worth much anymore.
Also the penalties are very small if you don't have any skilled players. Giving up some worthless gold is a too small penalty in my opinion.
I understand if fumbbl don't want to use houserules. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:36 |
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Getting gold in BB has never been much of a reward since we left lrb4 - it's consistently been worthless through crp onwwards, but even when it had value it's never fully compensated for the spp missed out on during a concession. There's a huge reason people wish to discourage them and/or will usually sit through an opponent passing turns or "soft-conceding" without complaint even though either violates the "spirit of the game", and that's because it's just much more valuable to farm spp than get gold. And it always has been.
On your tabletop league most people will tell you all the gold and spp in the world isn't worth losing out on your 1 game a week.
You'd be making a stronger argument if you said the current rules on concessions aren't punitive enough to conceding teams because they're unlikely to contain players that have to roll to leave. Still an incorrect argument, but a stronger one. |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:38 |
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Yep, so the 'reward' being reduced for 'forcing' a concession is not a bad thing in my mind.
I agree that perhaps it might mean more concessions at early team development but I'm not sure it'll be that significant.
Either way, persistent concessions is against the site rules so it should, and I'm sure will, be tackled that way
Edit: in response to Chris |
Last edited by C0ddlefish on %b %17, %2022 - %13:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:43 |
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I'm not sure I follow your logic. I point out that concession penalties are too soft and this has been made worse by the recent devaluation of gold, you answer that concessions are bad but nothing should be done about it and that my reasoning is wrong? |
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Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:46 |
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What do you mean by forcing a concession? |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Dec 17, 2022 - 13:56 |
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| Chrisdekok wrote: | | I'm not sure I follow your logic. I point out that concession penalties are too soft and this has been made worse by the recent devaluation of gold, you answer that concessions are bad but nothing should be done about it and that my reasoning is wrong? |
It's quite simple. I don't think the odd concession here or there is "bad" at all - there are valid reasons to concede and there's no inherent good or bad measure applied to the overall existence of them.
The reference to historic worthlessness of gold is also rather simple - the recent value applied to it is a blip, and in the terms of the recent history of BB, a statistical anomaly inside the rules.
You refer to the devaluation of gold not being punishing enough, but another question would have been - was in an era of scumming and extremely strong stars, gold being strong far too rewarding to the winning team and in fact, potentially an unhealthy influence on the game?
As with all off-pitch rules in 2020, I'd also encourage pause before questioning them when the entire suite is not on the site. |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Dec 17, 2022 - 14:57 |
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| Chrisdekok wrote: | | What do you mean by forcing a concession? |
Personally, and I completely accept it is entirely within the rules, I don't like games where someone has built their team purely to kill and maim and plays with the only purpose of trying to removal as many players as possible, effectively ignoring the ball. The idea being 'make them quit, take the win'. Effectively trying to 'force' the concession. To be clear though, no issue with claw MB centric Chaos and Nurgle as long as there is still an attempt to deal with the ball, try and score etc.
It was definitely more of a BB2/clawPOMB era issue (I didn't play in the RSC period). |
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Chrisdekok
Joined: Aug 09, 2021
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Dec 17, 2022 - 16:24 |
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I don't think you can force concessions, it's up to the conceding player.
In most concessions against my team cas is a factor but the triggering event is usually when a Gnoblar makes it free or turning over the ball. Opponent who has already taken a few cas get convinced he can't win or draw and concedes.
I also think it's unfair to blame the team that get conceded too. Even a team that get many concessions usually have a big majority of non concession wins. Maybe this was different during clawpomb. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Dec 17, 2022 - 16:43 |
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I'm sorry, C0ddlefish, I just don't see it. There's so much less lasting damage in this edition: the odds of a kill have gone down by 25%, lasting injuries have been diluted with -PA, niggling injuries are much more common but are now negligible in value, there's no Piling On, fouling Cas don't count for Cas stats, Claw and MB have been soft-decoupled, there are fewer ways to trigger MB. Playing to "force" a concession is much less viable than it was in the LRB6 era, and it was rare then. I mean, if you concede, I have to stop hitting you, and where's the fun in that? |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Dec 17, 2022 - 16:49 |
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You are maybe taking 'force' more literally than I intended. I'm just saying that there are a small subset of coaches (and as a say significantly moreso in BB2 than I've found on Fummbl) who ignore the ball playing elements of the game and just go out to maim and kill.
Some of them have openly told be the plan is to destroy my team and they want the concession win. It is not against the rules but it doesn't exactly make for a fun experience. To that end if 'cash is worth less' and therefore concession wins are worth less, I see there could be a positive in that.
More generally I agree with a lot of what AD says about the value of gold.
Edit: above was for Chris
JR - I think we agree that is already much less prevalent in this ruleset. I'm simply saying that if the new inducement rules make it even less so, then I see it as a positive |
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