FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 13:20

I think that a GF option to filter the TV gap of the offers could be useful (with the possibility to set the TV gap team by team, so if you have a Snotling team and a HE team you can set the Snotling team's TV gap very high, and very low for HE).

So, for example:

- max 0-50 TV difference;
- max 50-100 TV difference;
- max 100-150 TV difference;
- any TV difference;

edit. alternatively, even a % could work. The old GF actually had a slider allowing to set a range of TV difference %. So, the filter by TV difference is not even a new idea.

I activated by accident my HE on GF and suddenly unfair offers with big TV gaps appeared, hence this idea.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2023 - %18:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 13:42

i hate this idea. i want to mimic league as much as possible, and in league, you aren't matched on tv difference - and in particular, my opponents don't play me when they are matched on tv difference. i want it to be based on games played since last redraft - so everyone would have a starting tv difference that is minimal (although with agent fees, it could still be 100k+ tv difference), but then the gaps would potentially be able to get larger and larger the farther you are from redraft.

this would then work with current the same way, because redraft isn't implemented everyone is just playing based on how old the team is, so older teams would prefer to play older teams.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 14:21

You are free not to use the OPTIONS. This is why they are called OPTIONS.
Smile

If you want to play with TV gaps, you just disable the filter options.
The idea behind the TV gap filter is to avoid the spam of offers with TV gaps.
It seems that on GF many people like to challenge Elves and as overdog too.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2023 - %14:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

MerryZ

Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 14:24

Do agree on everything Nelphine said.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 14:26

About mimicing leagues: there could be a filter option on GF based on games played as well.
Anything that filter the offers you would not accept is welcome, because it speeds up the negotiation process.
It's quite annoying to have to check an offer just to see it's a kind of offer you would turn down.
The filter options do that automatically without the hassle of checking every offer.

Rawlf

Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 14:35

What are you doing on gamefinder?!

I thought everyone there is a picker and only box should be allowed for making rating games in your opinion? You would not be making exceptions from your ethics for yourself, would you?

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 14:38

I just played a Box game. I activated my HE on GF by accident. Maybe reading the first post would have avoided your post.
I wanted to make a suggestion to improve the GF. You know, you can suggest ideas even for things you don't use personally. It's a free site.
Also, if you don't have anything constructive to add apart from trolling me, please don't post.

Garion26

Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 16:21

Nelphine wrote:

i hate this idea. i want to mimic league as much as possible, and in league, you aren't matched on tv difference - and in particular, my opponents don't play me when they are matched on tv difference. i want it to be based on games played since last redraft - so everyone would have a starting tv difference that is minimal (although with agent fees, it could still be 100k+ tv difference), but then the gaps would potentially be able to get larger and larger the farther you are from redraft.

.

I agree with Nelphine but I will say Christer has said in the past in the various matchmaking solutions tried in the past players were most unhappy when there was a large TV difference possible. Games played as primary matchmaker as much as I generally dig it - would create some pretty high TV matchmaking difficulties.

For Matt - given that GF gives you refusal having high TV variance offers isn't a bad thing. The offer isn't a big deal. Is it really worth the programming effort so people can screen to just get a desired TV difference? One of my concerns is the more subdivisions you put in a matchmaker the harder it is to find a potential game for everyone involved in the site not just the ones who opt into your optional TV difference filter.

To Nelphines point I do think there is a real difference in teams at the same TV but some with 100 games and another with 3-6. The BB progression system is wonderful and works well in typical league environments. In online infinite games TV based matchmaking it stops working as well.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 16:57

MattDakka wrote:

You are free not to use the OPTIONS. This is why they are called OPTIONS.
Smile

If you want to play with TV gaps, you just disable the filter options.
The idea behind the TV gap filter is to avoid the spam of offers with TV gaps.
It seems that on GF many people like to challenge Elves and as overdog too.

sure the idea here is, that much like people who dislike teams who play both on gamefinder and in the box, when your opponent has those options, it takes away from the feel of what you want to play.

personally i don't expect anything like my idea to get implemented BUT i wanted it stated, that i think your suggestion is worse than my suggestion - so that hopefully, if my idea doesn't get implemented, that also means your idea won't get implemented.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 17:18

Garion26 wrote:

One of my concerns is the more subdivisions you put in a matchmaker the harder it is to find a potential game for everyone involved in the site not just the ones who opt into your optional TV difference filter.

But if a guy doesn't want to play with a high TV difference, not having the filter WON'T increase the numbers of possible games, because the guy who doesn't like the high TV difference will just turn down the offers manually.
The filter just saves the time to refuse the offer by manually clicking.
At the end of the day, in terms of quantity of possible games the filter doesn't make a difference.
It just speeds up the process, because only the offers you'd accept would be displayed.
If that is too hard and time-consuming to do, ok, as I said, it was just a suggestion to make the GF better, but don't tell me that a filter would make harder to find a game.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2023 - %19:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

C0ddlefish

Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 17:19

Can't you just set your teams to never be on game finder. Effectively box only.

Would certainly prevent accidental GF activation.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 17:23

Yes, I did that, but I have a SL team as well, and a GF filter could be useful in the future to see displayed only the offers within a certain TV difference.
There is no Box for SL teams, you know, so I have to use the GF to find games for SL teams.

Garion26

Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 18:38

MattDakka wrote:

Garion26 wrote:

One of my concerns is the more subdivisions you put in a matchmaker the harder it is to find a potential game for everyone involved in the site not just the ones who opt into your optional TV difference filter.

But if a guy doesn't want to play with a high TV difference, not having the filter WON'T increase the numbers of possible games, because the guy who doesn't like the high TV difference will just turn down the offers manually.
The filter just saves the time to refuse the offer by manually clicking.
At the end of the day, in terms of quantity of possible games the filter doesn't make a difference.
It just speeds up the process, because only the offers you'd accept would be displayed.
If that it's too hard and time-consuming to do, ok, as I said, it was just a suggestion to make the GF better, but don't tell me that a filter would make harder to find a game.

Matt speaking for myself I think what game I would accept depends on how hard it is to find a game at that point. If I'm on GF and there are just three possible matches with the teams I want to play with I will offer all three. If there are 15-20 options I will likely screen particularly looking at games played as my primary screen (and avoiding obvious morglings)
If no offers are accepted and I still want to play and box is about to be activated I'll drop into Black box. Seeing as many possible options for matchmaking lets me decide how much of a TV difference I'll accept. As it is GF already screens based on games played with higher TV mismatches allowed if you've played more (to my understanding)

Our recent blackbox match I saw your 90+ game orc team and didn't offer it a match in GF, but then when no one accepted a match in GF I decided to try blackbox. I was willing in that black box setting to play your orc team even if I wouldn't have voluntarily played it in GF. As you said during the game it was a higher tier team then my 9 game nurgle team and I had to get some luck to get the tie result we ended with.

I opted into blackbox and the risk of a potential mismatch because I didn't have a lot of options to get a game. No complaint I chose it.

If I was in gamefinder and I couldn't see a TV 200 mismatched team based on a filter I wouldn't have the option of offering a game. I'll happily take worse games if that's what I need to accept to scratch my blood bowl itch (given the other option is often no game)

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 18:53

Ok, but, again, you are fully free not to use the filter. People wanting to use it could do it.
If you are desperate and are willing to play massive TV gaps, you can do it. Nobody is saying you should always use the TV filter options.
You could enable/disable them according to situations/time/failed Box activation draw etc.

If I'm not close to PC yet checking the GF page from afar and I see some offers I have to get close and check them. The filter would reduce the need to do that.

As an aside, even at same TV, with 0 games played, TV 1000 Orcs are better than TV 1000 Nurgle.
So, not even a matter of games played, that was a mismatch due to roster design unbalance (as you know, and you said that you play Nurgle for fun, so that's due to a choice of yours, to some extents). Also, my Orc team lost many players recently, it wasn't in its best shape, despite his 90+ games played.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 19:53

my preference is to keep the rules the same in gamefinder and box. so, whatever rules are in box, would be options within gamefinder, so that if someone is used to one, they can easily find the same setup in the other.

i also believe that whatever options are available still gives an idea of what the site 'wants' or 'encourages' coaches to do. And i don't think drastic tv limits is something that should be encouraged. And yes, some people will still do it by manually not accepting those games, but I don't think the site should take that step to make it 'officially recognized'.