FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Lokragen

Joined: Aug 20, 2015

Posted: Feb 14, 2023 - 23:06

Google translation

Players' minds are busy with the fantastic 4, guard, mighty blow, block and dodge.

Some skills are rarely used, and I target passing skills first.

I was wondering, if certain skills could not be combined (like for "on the ball", example: "Running pass + Dump-off" and "cannoneer + cloud burster") to give way to "support" skills (like the leader skill)

The community will have better ideas, but I'll give you three examples of support skills so that you understand the idea.

For all three skills, usable if the player is not knocked out or injured

First aid: once per match, first aid allows a player of the team to relaunch an elimination roll, an injured player remains an injured player. (no return on a concussion)
Teams with the Undeath Master Trait cannot take this skill.

The motivator: the player chooses a KO player, his roll will be on a 2+ instead of the usual 4+
Usable, as long as there is drive

The collector: once per match (perhaps once per half-time?) you can relaunch one of the players who has already been relaunched

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 14, 2023 - 23:30

My own Passing-skills-related changes:

- Accurate and Cannoneer merged into a single skill: Accurate.
- Dump-Off: when a Blitz against the Dump-Off player is declared, they can decide to throw the ball at any point of the attacker's move.
- Pass: reduces Wildly Inaccurate to D3 scatter from target square.
- Safe Pass: turns Wildly Inaccurate into Fumble and Fumble into held ball (no turnover).

Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 06:00

My version.
Wildly inaccurate is done with the throw in template instead of the scatter template.

Accurate+Cannoneer = Accurate like Dakka said.

New Skill to replace Cannoneer: Pocket Passer. If a pass action is taken without moving, or moving with Running Pass, treat each range category as 2 (or 1 if thats overpowered) lower.

Cloudburster turns wildly inaccurate throws on deep and further into regular D3 scatters.

Fumblerooskie: If you fumble a pass attempt, it does not end your turn.

ClayInfinity

Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 06:35

MattDakka wrote:

My own Passing-skills-related changes:

- Accurate and Cannoneer merged into a single skill: Accurate.
- Dump-Off: when a Blitz against the Dump-Off player is declared, they can decide to throw the ball at any point of the attacker's move.
- Pass: reduces Wildly Inaccurate to D3 scatter from target square.
- Safe Pass: turns Wildly Inaccurate into Fumble and Fumble into held ball (no turnover).

I like these. Throwers shouldnt throw backwards, but the wildy innacurate pass of a non-passer does remain. Makes the Thrower even more necessary.

And in turn may make the Diving Catch skill more valuable...

Garion26

Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 22:03

I think the reason they split old accurate into 2020 accurate and cannoneer is old accurate was too much of an auto pick.

Passing skills are generally worse then other skills and leader and accurate have historically (pre BB2020) been the best two skills on a not great chart. Leader probably can't be touched because it's so essential for certain teams to manage TV and rerolls (elves, halflings, ogres for example all have easy access to it and a reason to consider it)

While I think there is an argument for making the table in general better (and passing better in general) you don't want to create a situation where there continues to be 'an automatic best pick'

MrCushtie

Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 23:11

There's an automatic best pick for General skills (Block). Of course, that's another can of worms - if Block was split into offensive block and defensive block, the cries of dismay would probably be louder than Accurate getting broken out by range...

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ClayInfinity

Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 23:38

Why not make Cannoneer +2 to the pass instead of +1. You're already dealing with the range negative so, it sort of makes long and long bomb passing more attractive.

A PA2+ passer throws a long bomb at 5+ to be successful (given the -3)... currently Cannoneer turns that into a 4+ which is like dodging with a Black Orc... you dont do it.

Making Cannoneer a +2 turns a Long Bomb into a 3+ for success. Much more appealing especially if you have Pass skill.

Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: Feb 16, 2023 - 20:36

MrCushtie wrote:

There's an automatic best pick for General skills (Block). Of course, that's another can of worms - if Block was split into offensive block and defensive block, the cries of dismay would probably be louder than Accurate getting broken out by range...

I actually think that would be a great change personally... But I'm a dirty AG player.

Seventyone

Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted: Feb 17, 2023 - 12:44

New passing skill (to fill the gap left by merging other skills)

"Pre planned manoeuvre"

If you choose to pass the nominated receiver can move up to three squares sideways or backwards (or some combination thereof) before the pass is attempted.

Receiver must make dodges, roll for tentacles, shadowing etc as normal. Anything that would normally be a turnover (eg failed dodge) is a turnover.

This movement happens before any moves made by on the ball players.

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[img w=400]https://fumbbl.com/i/493475[/img]

Lokragen

Joined: Aug 20, 2015

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 18:52

I think we all agree that there is a problem with the pass family

It's impossible to create 12 strong skills on the ball anyway, so we might as well assume and cut the family in half with support skills like "leader" (or whatever, it could bring a new dimension)

The best would be that all the skills are interesting to play in all the families, after I'm not naive, there will always be skills stronger than others, but avoid things like, why I will take safe pair of hands ... when I can have side step ? and unfortunately there are too many questions like that

Anyway, what I mean is, the game is still too much oriented on strong skills that we see all the time, I dream of a game with lots of possible combo, because all the skills are strong

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 18:58

Consider that with just 6 skill slots it's hard to have many effective and different builds because the most common and boring skills have often a kind of synergy and that the first skills are more important (so, for example, if you want to keep your player safe long enough to develop Block and Dodge are a common choice).
If the "bad skills" such as Safe Pair Of Hands used 1/2 skill slot then you could have more different builds.
Also, consider that multi-rr made some Passing skills weaker.
For example, On The Ball is nice to have. I took it because I don't want to risk a Rush to pick up the ball wherever it lands.
With multi-rr risking a Rush is less important, so On The Ball gets less important than it used to be.
Pass, other example: you can make 2 x Rushes instead of a 3+ Pass with Pass, with multi rr the Rush spam + Hand Off gets more appealing than trying to pass the ball.

Garion26

Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 19:47

That being said with random skills there is a reason to have bad skills on every skill family.
It provides a risk to choosing the random option.
Otherwise if all skills were equivalently useful random skills would be a better strategy then choosing skills given the SPP and TV efficiency built in

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 19:52

It's not a real risk for teams with cheap fodder players.
Random skills just help the teams with easily replaceable Linemen in case they roll a bad random skill.
I randomize Shadowing on a Zombie? Who cares, I fire and replace him, no problem. 40k is cheap and they can be raised for free as well.
If I randomize a bad skill on an Elf Lineman I have to spend 70k to replace him.
That means playing a game with 10 or more TV bloat or fire the Lineman.
Passing skills are not used as often as General skills, so they are already overpriced at 20 each.
I don't care if I get the random skill at 10 TV because I could ruin the build of a player with P access, who is generally quite expensive to replace.
A HE Thrower costs 100k, is a lot for me to risk to randomize a bad P skill on him.

mekutata

Joined: May 03, 2015

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 21:19

I'd suggest skills that allow more ball movement.

One skill to allow an automaticly succesfull handoff to a team mate backwards.

A Pass skill that allows one team mate to move before catch attempt, like an offence On the Ball. (71 suggested the same vibe) Could replace the currently Hail Mary Pass.

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remetagross

Joined: Mar 09, 2023

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 23:28

By the way can I move one of my own dudes with On the Ball when another of my dudes is using Dump-Off ?

I had thought of a skill to encourage giving passing skill to non-thrower players. "Adroit deflection" would allow the player that has received a quick or short pass to immediately make a free quick or short pass, 1/turn.