| Poll |
| Do you think that timeout: |
| Should be always called without any warning |
|
13% |
[ 24 ] |
| Should be always called but never the first time (1 warning max) |
|
17% |
[ 31 ] |
| Should be called only if happen too often in a game |
|
40% |
[ 72 ] |
| Should be never called |
|
11% |
[ 20 ] |
| Each coach should agree before the match how to manage the timeout csll |
|
8% |
[ 15 ] |
| Pie!!!! |
|
10% |
[ 18 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 180 |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
 Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 12:09 |
 
|
| JanMattys wrote: | The timeout rule does not exist.
Christer created something to counter possible deliberately malicious behaviours for the online version (i.e. afking). |
I just wanted to point out that current time out doesn't counter the afk behaviours, as you stated.
It can just discourage people from playing turns taking more than 4 minutes, but that is not really a counter to afk. The automatic time out (and timer for skills such as Stand Firm, Diving Tackle, Fend, Side Step etc.) would be a proper afk counter.
To be more accurate, I remember a game where I timed out a guy and he stopped playing on purpose (I reported him but I had to wait for the admin's concession and that was a waste of time). So, the manual time out can actually induce people to go AFK as retaliation, rather than countering the AFK issue. This is why I'd like an automatic time out. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %24, %2023 - %12:%May; edited 5 times in total |
|
ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 12:12 |
|
| JanMattys wrote: |
We are not playing the CRP. We are playing bb2020. The crp was in 2013. It's 2023. It's two rulesets ago. |
Agreed, and I have referenced this already in the thread. But your sentence also applied a judgement based on history - the original application of the timeout isn't for malicious AFK.
Now why it remains is a question only Christer can answer, but it's not very productive for the rest of us to affect moral judgements on either side of that discussion surely?
As long as it remains people will play to the client.
edit: As the post below takes the date as sacrosanct, a correction - CRP was released in 2009, the timed turnover rule was also part of lrb5 which predates this. This site switched over to CRP somewhat later than the CRP rules were released but nevertheless, the timed turn has been present here for around a decade. |
_________________
Last edited by ArrestedDevelopment on %b %24, %2023 - %13:%May; edited 1 time in total |
|
RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 12:37 |
|
Seems obvious that when a rule does not exist (and it is clear that the rule has not existed since 2013.- thanks JanMattys for the clarification) moral judgements can happen. But they do not have the presumption to be "the truth". They remain "personal opinion" (which legitimate right to be told)
Those who use timeout as a 'club' can be considered offensive. Those who play too slow can be considered offensive.
Those who make a poll to discuss timeout can be considered judger (and this I understand sound offensive for some...)
In my opinion we are getting off topic if we get into a philosophy of morality. It is so obvious that when there is no law every judgement based on one's own 'personal morality is allowed, just as it is obvious that every person has their own personal morality.
That is why laws and regulations exist, to avoid anarchy and chaos. I say this without presumption of moral or ethical judgement
although one have the right to say that he does not like to play with coaches who make timeout without warning.... precisely because in the absence of a rule it's a legitimate claim. |
|
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 12:42 |
|
CRP was created in 2013 but the 4 min rule was in effect till 2019. Now it is not though.
Also, I want to formally apologize to every use on the site for my lack of restraint. MattDakka really gets under my skin, but that's no excuse. I'll delete my post and make sure not to post on threads like this anymore. They get the worst out of me so the less I thread on them, the better. |
_________________
 |
|
moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 13:12 |
|
| smeborg wrote: | I dislike timed turns altogether. Turns are by their nature very uneven in length (e.g. the first action of a turn is quad skulls).
I think a much better system is the equivalent of a chess clock for the whole match
Play the easy turns quickly, be allowed extra time for the tricky turns. Games become more creative and pleasing.
|
I disagree. A system like this would make time managment harder. Especially for unexperienced coaches. I asume that it would be a lot more frustrating to lose a game because you don't even get a 8th turn and your opponent can do 2 turns in a row. Than Losing because you did not have enough time to pull of your super special turn you have been thinking about for over 3 min and you don't have time to execute it fully. |
|
|
JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 13:23 |
|
Honestly as bad as BB3 is, the turn timer is excellent. 2 minutes per turn with a time bank of 7 minutes. |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 13:57 |
|
| RDaneel wrote: | Seems obvious that when a rule does not exist (and it is clear that the rule has not existed since 2013.- thanks JanMattys for the clarification) moral judgements can happen. But they do not have the presumption to be "the truth". They remain "personal opinion" (which legitimate right to be told)
|
I find it very sad that the rulebook no longer explicitly states that "the commissioner's word is law". 
But as Christer can disable any of our accounts whenever he wishes, the commissioner's word still is law. 
So, it is Christer's mind that you need to change. Even if you change it, he might still feel that the work required to change what we have now isn't worth it for the benefit we might gain.
4 minutes works. People can time you out without warning dead on 4 minutes.
That is the rule.
Ya'll gotta suck it up. Like it or not.
Where my "word is law", I went for
| Quote: |
This is intended to be a fun tournament. Ideally, don't be timing people out.
If you must timeout, issue a warning at least 15 seconds before pressing the button.
Do this before each timeout. |
Though 145 Club allows NO timeouts at all. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
|
moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 14:41 |
|
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Honestly as bad as BB3 is, the turn timer is excellent. 2 minutes per turn with a time bank of 7 minutes. |
How do you know? I thought you only played BB3 sleeping  . |
|
|
RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 14:43 |
|
| koadah wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: | | Seems obvious that when a rule does not exist (and it is clear that the rule has not existed since 2013.- thanks JanMattys for the clarification) moral judgements can happen. But they do not have the presumption to be "the truth". They remain "personal opinion" (which legitimate right to be told) |
I find it very sad that the rulebook no longer explicitly states that "the commissioner's word is law".
But as Christer can disable any of our accounts whenever he wishes, the commissioner's word still is law.
|
there is no doubt that Christer's word on this site is the law.
perhaps I have not explained myself well. When I say that a timeout rule does not exist, I mean that it is not specified - on the site rules - what one should do with the timeout button.
So to be more precise, there is a rule today and the rule is that anyone can do whatever they like with that button which pop up after 4 mins.
|
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 14:49 |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 24, 2023 - 16:29 |
|
There is only one coach on the site I would spitefully time out. Every one else I have never timed out. Thought about it many times but I just let it slide. |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 25, 2023 - 01:37 |
|
When I talk about there being a timeout "rule"...
If there is a timeout button, and you can press it, and there are no negative consequences to pressing it under any particular circumstances, then the rule is, by implication, that you can and should press it whenever you want. And anyone who doesn't is a chump.
It doesn't have to be written down to be a rule. There's no rule written down in chess explicitly saying that you can move pieces with your left hand. And in online games especially, the convention is that if you can physically do it, and it's not overwhelmingly obviously exploiting a bug, then it's part of what you're allowed do.
If people want there to be etiquette and convention and especially an actual rule for when you can't press the button, it needs to be written down somewhere. Otherwise you end up with a situation where nobody even knows or agrees what the etiquette is, and that's fundamentally unfair. And like all these things, it's the most unfair on the chumps who want to do the right thing, and the most advantageous to the jerks who follow the rules as not-written. |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
May 25, 2023 - 01:45 |
|
|
Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 25, 2023 - 03:10 |
|
It's just the technical term for someone who makes up their own constraints on how they play a game, to their own disadvantage. I'm not really trying to judge them, though I may be a little bit trying to rile them up into fixing the situation properly. |
|
|
Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
|
| Posted:
May 25, 2023 - 09:00 |
|
I don't see how this can warrant a 16 page discussion. The rule is you can press it anytime. But a little bit of courtesy by giving an advance warning to people that may not anticipate an immediate time out is not too much to ask right? Typing "btw - I do time out when your turn goes over 4 minutes" at the start of the game will cost you 3 seconds. No rule needed, just a bit of consideration that your opponent might not count on an immediate time out in an environment where immediate time outs are rare. |
|
|
|
|
| |
[L] OBBA Smack Talk ...
Search
