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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ma8 is too much for vamps

I called they'd be problematic in the right hands.

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RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 11:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Lack of redraft is a factor that benefits some teams more. Vampires are one of them. No secrets here...

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 11:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, MA 8 is too much, I would make the Runners MA 7 Sprint.
About the Bloodlust, I would change it like so: if a Vampire fails a Bloodlust and doesn't bite a Thrall, at end of their Action they are Knocked Down (to represent their weakness).
Old Vampires were removed from the pitch (and that was too harsh), but new Bloodlust just causing a turnover seems too good to me.
EinVoegleinImWind



Joined: May 31, 2023

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 12:18 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Yes, MA 8 is too much, I would make the Runners MA 7 Sprint.
About the Bloodlust, I would change it like so: if a Vampire fails a Bloodlust and doesn't bite a Thrall, at end of their Action they are Knocked Down (to represent their weakness).
Old Vampires were removed from the pitch (and that was too harsh), but new Bloodlust just causing a turnover seems too good to me.


The Vampire also loses his Tackle Zone, so no skills for that Vamp either. And no assists from him and he cannot catch the ball until his next activation.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I know, but that's not a big drawback. You can just keep the Vampire protected by a screen of players or just move him away. It's still way better than having the Vampire removed from the pitch like in old rulesets.
I played some games with Vampires and failed Bloodlust without bites weren't a big issue.


BBKing wrote:
everytime you want to move a vampire you have to roll bloodlust, calm down pumpkin

Yes, and you can:

1) not move all the Vampires every turn, thus reducing the chance of failing a Bloodlust roll. The threat of Hypnotic Gaze on its own can affect how the opponent plays their turns even if not all the Vampires are actually activated;
2) use either a rr or Pro (3+ is very good for Vampires compared to old 4+ Pro); multi rr helps as well (another thing that old rulesets didn't have);
3) bite a Thrall;
4) accept to fail the Bloodlust and suffer a turnover.

Once a team gets 3 or 4 rrs + Leader (which is a Primary skill for Throwers, cheap and easy to acquire) and some Pro, the failed Bloodlusts are not a big issue if you have a degree of turn planning.


Last edited by MattDakka on %b %14, %2024 - %13:%May; edited 3 times in total
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 13:06 Reply with quote Back to top

God forbid there are good teams

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 13:11 Reply with quote Back to top

JimmyFantastic wrote:
God forbid there are good teams


True I think they need to nerf Goblins more

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MercutioT



Joined: Mar 19, 2015

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 14:34 Reply with quote Back to top

The game needs more interesting ways overcome static game-states: reinforced cages, heavy screens, and too much Blodge. Otherwise, we just have people with slight player-advantage stalling out every drive in every game with every team, which makes for the most boring games imaginable.

We used to have Break Tackling big guys, leaping Slann killsquads, and bombs. Now, we just have bombs and Hypnotic Gaze. So I love the new Hypnotic Gaze. I love that it means that Vampires don't have to build their players with the same boring loadout as other teams, as they have a natural way to circumvent overpowered skills like Block and Dodge. I welcome anything that makes Dwarves and Elves and Undead and other boring teams less advantaged, and rewards coaches that play interesting, unpredictable teams.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Agree somewhat, but it's a tough thing to balance

If there was no way to have 'exceptions', things like gaze, slann, bombs, wizard, etc etc - things that all 'break' the regular game rules - then it would be a limited game. It'd be lots of tight cages, very controlled gameplay, very slim margins of victory coming down to very few dice rolls
(We're already seeing some of that meta emerge with the guard + stand firm teams)

So whoever has the best grasp of the management of risk, of the clock, of blocking and positioning would generally win


However, these things are the fundamentals of the game, and of how to be good at it

If it goes TOO wacky, then those fundamentals are undermined.
So then if the game is going against you, can just throw some wacky shit in there and hope for the best, which isn't good either
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 15:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I guess an issue with Vamps is, most skills have a counter. Are you getting Strip Balled? take Sure Hands. Are you struggling against Sidestep? take Grab. etc

But there's no skill which works as a counter for Gaze
So you can't build your team to perform better against them
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

The counter to Gaze is positioning, but it's not easy.
As an aside, with multi rr Blodge is not overpowered.
Good, yes, overpowered, no.
With old rulesets you could make hard to reach the Blodge ball carrier (and that often forced the opponent to use a rr before touching the target).
Now rrs can be used to get close to the Blodgers with dodges/rushes, then, if no pow is rolled, you can still use a rr for that block.
It's nice to have a team able to break cages and disrupt static stalling, but Vampires seem too good at it (partly due to their roster and partly due to multi rr, better Pro and lack of Re-Draft).
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 15:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Isn’t it nice that there is a format somewhere where Vampires are good? That’s not been a thing since I started playing. They’re lower mid-table overall in C and 9th so far this year in resurrection tournaments (likely that high because they’re not yet commonly properly tiered), so it’s not like in the TV range where most BB is played they’re problematic.

I suspect seasons, when implemented, will fix this in the Major format if indeed it is a problem. But until then, I quite like that they’re having a moment in the sun somewhere. So to speak, I mean, they won’t like that. Smile
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
JimmyFantastic wrote:
God forbid there are good teams


True I think they need to nerf Goblins more


Exactly. All this talk of nerfing vampires when clearly what needs to be done is for goblins to get Really Stupid and Secret Weapon on every single player, and (not sure if this addresses balance enough, but it's a start) go to MA6 and AV5+

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Jan-Erik



Joined: Apr 17, 2011

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 19:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think vampires need any nerfs, high TV isn't blood bowl so it should be disregarded.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 14, 2024 - 19:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea they're a lot more unreliable without skills & rerolls, so any of these^ proposed nerfs would directly and disproportionately hurt them at low TV much worse
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