Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 12:33 |
 
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Consistent on some of it, flip flopping on a lot more tho, imo |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 19, 2025 - 12:43 |
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I didn't ask to change the core rules of the game in C. I just said that I would change some rosters from scratch (when talking about NAF format).
I just suggested to decrease a bit the Season from 15 to 12, which is something that can be done within the official rules of the game, as far as I know, and, since that wasn't liked, I suggested a more accurate TV pairing (again, it doesn't affect the official rules, but just how Box games are arranged by the scheduler).
These are just ideas, I didn't insist. I said amen, so I'm not going in circles.
Just, I wanted to try to suggest them. It's a forum, it's made for discussing stuff, after all.  |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 19, 2025 - 12:57 |
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Those ARE core rules. Plus other things you've said.
Season length is for the league commish yes, and Christer decides that in C
- Try the other divisions that are similar to what you want
- Make your own league if you want to try it your way
- Otherwise accept it's not changing |
Last edited by Sp00keh on Feb 19, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 12:58 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:05 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: |
Season length is for the league commish yes, and Christer decides that in C |
I know, and I thought that it was possible that Christer changed the Season's length, hence my suggestion of forum.
There is a slim chance that things change if you try to ask.
That was the rationale behind the thread.
Season's length is something that the Commissioner can change according to official rules, so it wasn't unreasonable to ask for a shorter Season.
I didn't ask that because a day I woke up and wanted to change it on a whim, but because I actually experienced games vs very minmaxed teams despite the Season Re-Draft.
About your suggestions: I already explained why making my own league is not possible (not enough people would play, not possible to play 2+ games a day), so now it's you going around in circles in my thread. 
The same goes for accepting that things won't change, I already wrote amen, it's ok, several posts ago. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:14 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: |
Yes and no.
Depend which Box:
Trophy Box games yes. Good coaches.
Outside BB Trophy? very questionable. |
I mean, blackbox is blackbox, it doesn't matter if your team is in the trophy or not
Also, the whole point of BBT was to encourage the top coaches to spend time playing bad rosters instead of top rosters |
I just say that in my opinion really good coach play Trophy and are able to get 60% - 70% win rate
exactly because trophy force you to play also bad rosters
My win rate in Trophy i think is 44% out of Trophy is 57% (70% in gamefinder well gamefinder does not really count).
And most comes from the fact that for bad roster i hardly can have a win rate greater than 40% where other good coaches can (and also with good roster win rate is not so high exactly because if i play in trophy i have more chance to play vs a good coach so if i play Undead vs Naama for instance i have very very high probability to lose.
So good coaches are the one who play Trophy and are able to get WR greater than 60%. But does not mean good coaches are ONLY in Trophy.
| MattDakka wrote: | | About 15 games: I think that 15 games allow to keep freaks and Linemen with random G and S skills for longer, but if that's what people here want, ok. Let's enjoy games vs minmaxed Norse and Amazon teams! |
I believe you have been able to keep for four years minmaxed stat freaked tiers 1 -2 teams (Orcs, Amazons, Undead, Dwarves) with which you have gained an enviable average win rate of 70% ( or higher) in Box (most because you play well no discussion but also part of the benefit of the minmax).
Has anyone ever publicly complained that activating a team in the Box with more than 15 games risked meeting yours with 300 game super minmaxed rosters and thus starting with a handicap?
No i don't remember a public 12 pages forum discussion on this.
But you dared to start a public indictment of the way Christer has sized the redraft complaining that 15 games per season is too many and makes the Amazons and Norse OP.
May I say, without being accused of trolling, that I suspect your frustration comes also of the fact that your win rate since January 18th, 2025 has dropped from 73% (+/-5%) to 55% (+/-5%)?
I am NOT saying your win rate is 55% : i say that if you go to Win Rater calculator your win rate since 18/01/2025 till today 19/02/2025 is 53.17% on 63 games played since redraft started (which is much better than mine of 47% btw so grats)
And please don't take this as trolling.
I am trying to find a reason why since the redraft you have opened i think more than 2 or 3 forum's thread about criticizing the redraft, rules, and whatever.
Now, and I want to say in public:
you ARE a GOOD coach.
Everybody has told you that, nobody put in discussion.
So PLEASE why don't you stop crying and moaning in public forum for 16 pages asking for rules changes and extend your way of playing adapting to the new reality?
You have said it in a thousand sauces that you don't like to play NAF tournaments, you don't like to play trophy, you don't like to play RRR, resurrections, minors, majors, you don't play SuperLeague (you don't play any league i think) , but you only ever play one format and your target is to be top 1 in BOX for some specific races.
If this is your primary target you are succeeding so be happy and enjoy life.
But if you feel unhappy (and all these continuing public moaning seems to proof that you don't feel exactly happy) why don't you try to CHANGE adapting to new rules and spare us with hundred of moaning in public forums? Please. really. Please.
Now since the rules have changed this is also an opportunity to play differently.
I think Voltaire was who said ‘I May Disapprove Of What You Say, But I Will Defend To The Death Your Right To Say It’
...but if you repeat and repeat the same complaints hundreds of times even if it's your right I think even Voltaire would lose his patience a little, right?
If you don't want to you are free to complain in these forums, crying about the fact that unfortunately you will have to face the amazons and norse a bit pumped up...
But in this case you have to accept that some people disagree and critics you in the same public with the same freedom without then crying to admins "hey ! they are trolling me"... If there are no personal insult (and make a critic is not a public insult. Telling a statistic like a win rate drop is not a public insult is data to sustain a thesis).
So if you think Amazon and Norse with 15 games redraft are OP let's make a poll , or post a mail to GW FAQ raising the issue maybe they will correct in a FAQ
Maybe GW will nerf in future Zons and Norse
But continuing in this public moaning does not bring anywhere..
And this is not trolling please.
I am expressing a public opinion on your specific opinions, and argument to explain why in my opinion you are so angry vs the new 15 games season redraft.
I disagree with your vision, but as Voltaire told i hope the admins will allow me the right to express my opinion in educate way without censorship my post or ban me for forum harassment.
thanks! |
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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:18 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | Those ARE core rules. Plus other things you've said.
Season length is for the league commish yes, and Christer decides that in C
- Try the other divisions that are similar to what you want
- Make your own league if you want to try it your way
- Otherwise accept it's not changing |
The amount of cash per game is different too.
I don't think that Christer would or should change the number of games per season any time soon. But he could if he wished.
So why shouldn't people put their ideas out there?
"Play [L]eague" has been suggested many, many times over the years.
It has no Black Box and it is difficult to get a large number of pick up games. Certainly not quickly. This has been said many times. |
_________________
Secret League rosters, old style skill progression, no re-draft OR full 2016 rules. OR... 4000k All Stars! ALWAYS recruiting! |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 13:20 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | I just say that in my opinion really good coach play Trophy and are able to get 60% - 70% win rate
exactly because trophy force you to play also bad rosters |
It's the other way around. They're not getting high winrate because they're playing bad rosters, instead they're getting a high winrate with bad rosters BECAUSE they're very good
...Unless you meant trophy is giving them more practice with bad rosters?
That's sorta true also. but some very good ones will play every race anyway regardless, eg Java and others trying to win RRR with every roster, etc
| RDaneel wrote: | | if i play in trophy i have more chance to play vs a good coach |
Not true. If you spin a blackbox team it doesn't matter if you're in trophy or not, it's not part of the matching
So your opponent might be in BBT, or might not be |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:22 |
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| koadah wrote: | So why shouldn't people put their ideas out there?
"Play [L]eague" has been suggested many, many times over the years.
It has no Black Box and it is difficult to get a large number of pick up games. Certainly not quickly. This has been said many times. |
So that leads him to the 3rd choice there then
It shouldn't take yet another huge thread to reach this conclusion |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:36 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | koadah wrote: | So why shouldn't people put their ideas out there?
"Play [L]eague" has been suggested many, many times over the years.
It has no Black Box and it is difficult to get a large number of pick up games. Certainly not quickly. This has been said many times. |
So that leads him to the 3rd choice there then
It shouldn't take yet another huge thread to reach this conclusion |
Why?
Even if it won't change soon, it may change eventually.
Sometimes ya gotta play the long game. 
But why are you still here on page 8? |
_________________
Secret League rosters, old style skill progression, no re-draft OR full 2016 rules. OR... 4000k All Stars! ALWAYS recruiting! |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 13:44 |
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Why are any of us  |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 13:45 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: | I just say that in my opinion really good coach play Trophy and are able to get 60% - 70% win rate
exactly because trophy force you to play also bad rosters |
It's the other way around. They're not getting high winrate because they're playing bad rosters, instead they're getting a high winrate with bad rosters BECAUSE they're very good
...Unless you meant trophy is giving them more practice with bad rosters?
That's sorta true also. but some very good ones will play every race anyway regardless, eg Java and others trying to win RRR with every roster, etc
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I mean that good coaches are able to get decent win rate also spinningg in Box bad roster
a proof is that i am not a good coach and look my win rate with My Ogres in BT13
https://fumbbl.com/t/1211171
Look Malmir Win rate with Ogre in BT12
https://fumbbl.com/t/1196563
and note: I'm duplicating his roster strategy
| Sp00keh wrote: | | RDaneel wrote: | | if i play in trophy i have more chance to play vs a good coach |
Not true. If you spin a blackbox team it doesn't matter if you're in trophy or not, it's not part of the matching
So your opponent might be in BBT, or might not be |
yes this is true in principle but if you spin a team below 15 games is likely to be paired with teams playing BT.
What i mean is IF you spin your SQUAD in trophy for sure you will not meet coaches who use to play games in season 2. You will meet coaches who play only games in season 1
And i think (but here you are right i need stat) that 60% of coaches who activate teams of 1 season play Trophy (now this stat can be also modified by the IDT)
Then my assumption that "good" coaches play mainly Trophy is a speculation i agree... i don't have math proof.. is my feeling. |
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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Feb 19, 2025 - 13:55 |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 14:13 |
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There is a danger when we go looking for information that complements what we already believe that we will only find exactly what we are looking for... |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 14:31 |
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we are discussing opinions here. Not a mathematical demonstration.
but stats can be collected and these are numbers (then i agree they can be used to confirm your pre-judgments) |
_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
Last edited by RDaneel on Feb 19, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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