Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Mar 27, 2026 - 12:55 |
 
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with the 2025 edition coming out of Beta on Fumbbl soon. I thought I'd share my initial impressions/opinions of playing 2025 edition. And I'd love to hear other peoples that have been playing in the Beta test division and with the Eurobowls rules too (I did not play Eurobowl so have no comments about this).
General Overview
Ultimately the game still feels and plays like Blood Bowl and is a considerable improvement to the out of the box game compared with the launch of 2020 edition, which had many big problems at launch (mighty blow - no turn over bombs, Morg-Flem, Wildly Inaccurate Passing, insanely powerful underworld and Snotlings at launch, and Bomber Dribblesnot (who arrived 2 months in), they ruined apothecaries by changing the cas table… poor rule clarity… and so on..). That said in 2025 edition there are still a number of areas that desperately need FAQ’ing officially, but while we wait for that to drop (likely in May) Christer and the team have made a number of calls all of which feel sensible to me in line with what the rules says, and best guesses at what was intended by the rules writers. In places these diverge from what the NAF have ruled. But the NAF have out and out ignored clear rules changes in a few areas…
But on the whole it is still a very enjoyable game, and they GW have done a better job than they previously did at launch.
Remember this is all my opinion and would love to hear yours, also there are lots of negatives... that doesn't mean I dislike the game. I still LOVE this game, but it has changed a load of stuff that was previously better.
Positives Rules Changes
* Removal of Wildly Inaccurate Passing
* Generally improving the Pa stat across many races and positionals
* Remove of the '–' Pa stat from all players other than the No hands/No Ball players, (they gave them all 6+ Pa)
* Secure The Ball Action – this is the single best change in this edition, I have been playing a house rule for years where you get an additional +1to pick ups when there are no opposing players within 3 squares. Secure the Ball is a much better rule. I brilliant addition to the game.
* Stat increases table has made it harder to get +Ma x2 players and feels less obnoxious
* Elite skill pricing, though I personally would have loved to have seen a 3rd category for bargain bin skills prices at 10k
* Break Tackle – love this change, it’s nearly back to its glorious best. But I’ll certainly take this
* Taunt – I love the inclusion of this skill, this is the exact name and implementation of skill I have in my rules, so yeah I’m glad this is now part of the official game. It wont be taken a lot, but it’s still a nice fun option to have. I’m not so keen on Orc Blockers starting with it as Orcs are bonkers good… but that’s a separate thing
* Swoop – I think this skill has found its happy medium at last. It is now useful, but not overpowered, the original implementation made throwing the Doom Diver directly into the end zone too likely, the 2nd implementation meant you would never ever hire the player. This time they’ve got it right.
* Stunty Dodges with Weapons – Chainsaws being able to dodge into a cage finally is very nice. I’m really happy with this change as the Loony now poses a true threat on defence.
* Apothecary/cas table fixed – they fixed the cas table to is as it was pre 2020
Negative Rules Changes
* Allowing Passing and Throw Team-Mate to occur in the same turn, this makes TTM too probable, especially after the changes to multi rrs a turn and how easy getting +Ag is now.
* Kick – You no longer get to choose whether to use the Kick skill or not after the scatter and distance rolls have been made. This has reduced the efficacy of this skill
* Devious Skills – in theory I’m not against additional skill categories, but if they are added they should add something to the game. The Devious Skills are almost all pointless and essentially rules bloat
* The Stalling rule – it does nothing and is just irritating that you even have to think about it… there are so many ways of getting round it, some of which are really stupid… such as not activating your ball carrier and intentionally failing an action with another player, such as a dodge, or block, or foul… then you aren’t classed as stalling.. or alternately you can put 3 players in front of your ball carrier so in theory your ball carrier would need a GFI to get to the end zone… even though you could freely just move 1 player and then walk it in. But the biggest gripe I have with this rule is it will just be a gotcha occurrence when playing against newer coaches, and it also disproportionately impacts the worst stunty teams as they cannot manage pitch control like a normal team. Finally the stalling rule only really comes into play in the first 5 turns of the half, turn 6 you can move into scoring range, and there is no roll in turn 7 for a rock. The game would be better if this rule didn’t exist.
* Steady Footing – this is the worst skill this game has ever had, not in terms of how good it is. But in its design. It is anti-fun, anti-strategy and due to how it is written - it activates after an event has occurred. e.g. you play a half and strategically break open a cage/screen and hit their ball carrier, knocking them over. Then magically, they just stay standing and keep holding the ball. Or you defend really well and their ball carrier has to make a string of unlikely dodges to score. They fail a dodge roll, the player goes down and then magically they keep their feet and keep moving forward. It creates real feel bad moments and detracts from the skill of the game, and there is no agency involved. If being knocked down while holding the ball and keeping your footing resulted in the ball being dropped still, then fair enough. Or if when you failed the dodge but kept your footing you dropped that ball then again that wouldn’t be as bad. Personally, I also believe the players activation should end right there, they should not be able to keep moving forward. But it is what it is, and as previously stated this is the worst designed skill the game has had to date, including the original 1993 Pilling On…
* Dodgy Snacks – This is fine on fumbbl as it automatically gets added to a player and it’s easy to track. But on tabletop this is just more in game admin, and more token use, which detracts from the game and slows things down.
* Team Captain – Ward saves on using a Re-roll are dumb, there is no need for this rule.
* Team Mascot – a dicey attempt at a free re-roll. I don’t hate this, but it’s just not needed, and Mascot combined with team captain, plus steady footing, dodgy Snakcs, and taunt, and all these things have created an awful lot of in game admin…
* Prayers – They can be very game impacting, thankfully Christer has house-ruled these to a more reasonable cost.
* Rosters – I’ll cover rosters in more detail, but generally I think the rosters are too over-described now. The game started moving in this direction in 2020 edition, which goes against one of JJs cardinal rules when designing Blood Bowl teams. Which he documented in Blood Bowl Magazines in 2001. Also in most rosters (not all) there is no room for differing builds like there used to be and differing development paths. Everything feels telegraphed now.
* Sneaky Git – While I have already pointed out that D skills such, I though I’d give special mention to Sneaky Git going from an excellent skill to a rubbish one..
* Shadowing – I dislike the change to this skill. Sure it makes it slightly more useful for slow teams, but it’s just not a worthwhile skill taking now, whereas it used to be. Maybe if you stack shadowing and DT .. as the skill order now works as it used to way back in the day… but I would still prefer Shadowing to be stronger the faster you are as it used to, also I’m not sure I can think of any players that have D and A access that would want DT and Shadowing…
* Eyegouge – just more stuff to track, more admin. It matters less on fumbbl. On table top it’s a bore.
* Bombardier – More specifically bouncing bombs. The NAF are ignoring this rule change, but fumbbl is not. Hopefully this will be fixed in the FAQ, bouncing bombs combines with “hitting your team-mate causes a turn-over” just makes bombs utterly useless. I dislike bombs anyway, as for my taste they make the game too dicey, and I am glad that it means we wont see Dribblesnot all the time. But it is sad for Goblins that their bomber is even more of a never ever take than it used to be
* Star Player access – this isn’t really a new thing, but rather a continuation of poor rules from 2020… the star players that some teams have access to changes the teams too much away from their intended design. E.g. Halflings with Elfs just doesn’t sit right.. and there are many other examples
* Star player special rules – this is also a continuation of poor rules writing from 2020, generally speaking not the biggest issue in the world. But that game would be tighter and better imo if they didn’t exist.
* Hatred – I understand why they added it… they wanted to encourage injured players to be kept on the roster I’d assume… But its just a stupid bloaty rule, adding a weird interaction to specific situations and requires more book keeping and pointless rolling.. should not have been added to the game.
I think that’s about it..
On to the rosters. I’ll only discuss the ones that I played with, and some of the ones I played against a lot…
Rosters
Chaos Chosen:
This is now my favourite roster in the game the changes allow them to start with a good starting roster, they are no longer a true bash team, they are a pitch control team, and very good at it. I did draw too many games with them, but ultimately playing with them felt like a joy. It felt like playing low TR LRB4 again where positional play was everything. Where tactics were paramount. I think this is now for me the “coolest” race in the game, and where I will be playing most of my games… I know some will bemoan the loss of the S access on primaries on the beastmen, but I don’t mind this change, and gaining thick skull is lovely especially with a 5k price drop. Arm Bar I could do without… I don’t think the game needs this skill to exist at all. In 12 games it did it’s thing once…
Here is the team if you want to see how it developed: https://fumbbl.com/t/1257850
I briefly tried with a Minotaur just to test it out, and I have always hated Minotaurs and still do, retired the team straight away. I think they’re trash. Troll build, or early Ogre is the way to go..
Dwarf
I only played 8 games with Dwarfs. And it most of them were at very low/rookie TV. The first 7 of which I won, the 8th I lost. I tried to develop them like old Dwarfs as a test to see if it is viable… and it isn’t. The bloat in the team is too great. It ends up costing 120k for a Lineman with Guard. I should have had a stat increase attempt on a Runner. But he died due to me leaving a blitz on him on the final turn of a game, which I didn’t need to do. But that would have been helpful developmentally… Ultimately though, I think at 1000 to 1100 TV dwarfs are much the same, they just have 1 less RR, they will still win from having Block spammed on their team. But developmentally they really are bad if you try and build them the old fashioned way… which is obvious.. but I thought I’d see how it felt. And as soon as they got their skills the roster felt horribly outgunned by bash teams. Against Elfs though… they are great. Those Blitzers with Tackle and DT are a real nightmare for Elfs to deal with. I also found skilling the Blitzers really hard. I was unlucky not to get more cas with them as they did a lot of blitzing. But scoring with them was tough, because they were primarily used to gain positional advantage using Diving Tackle, creating space the remaining slow players to trundle forward.
I’m honestly not sure how one would develop dwarfs successfully now. Developmentally they really do feel like they are in a terrible spot if they have to play against bash teams.
https://fumbbl.com/t/1262128 here is my team if you want to see how they developed, again bare in mind I should have had a chance of a stat increase runner. Not that that guarantees a good stat up…
In terms of enjoyability, I did not find them particularly interesting to play… maybe slightly more so that they used to be at low TV due to the tactical deployment of DT. This positionally made them interesting… as they develop though they just feel weaker and weaker as the opposition improve and the dwarfs don’t particularly, maybe it is possible to build them an interesting way… and focus all the skills on the Blitzers, and Runners, but I just don’t see it.
Elf Union
This is a bit sad. These have been one of my top 3 races to play in blood bowl since they were re-introduced to the game in the BB Magazines days… during the early LRB1 to 1.3 process... I mained these for a long time during CRP and loved competing with Dolls at the time… I was disheartened last edition when their catchers because terrible at passing, as they lost out on the fun you could have starting with NoS. Now the team has been made even worse. Their linemen have been bumped up in price 5k each for fumblerooski, which I never used in 7 games, and they have lost 2 Catchers. Which makes the roster significantly weaker once developed. The addition of HMP for free is fine. I did use it once against nurgle, it was actually quite useful in that instance, although I’m sure I could have scored with a couple of dodges and a normal pass instead, ultimately it’s a bit of a nothing burger. Diving Catch on the Catchers is a weird addition, but it’s fine… it basically gives you 1 extra square of throw distance for free, as you can throw to an adjacent square. Ultimately the team plays the same as it always has, but Catchers are worse as they can’t pass, and you only get 2… Now the team is also TV busted due to Fumblerooski. I will play them still because they meant a lot to me personally. But I wouldn’t blame anyone else for never touching them… they just don’t have a great deal going for them, other than incredible Blitzers... They are the closest to a traditional elf team I guess, but then again Wood Elfs just do most things better (blodge Step aside).
My team if you are interested in seeing how they go on so far: https://fumbbl.com/t/1264602
Goblin
It took me a couple of trial builds to work out what was best for Goblins but I have a handle on it now, one of the learning experiences was about bombs, which I forgot now bounced… which created an auto lose game and quick retire of the team... I also had a game with another team where I was about to score, my phone rang I knocked my mouse on the floor which clicked a button and ran my player away from the end zone. Turning a possible win into a definite loss… so after that team was also retired. I got my act together and gave them a proper try.
Overall I haven’t played with Goblins enough to say if they got better or worse in the meta, but there are certainly better in isolation than their previous edition roster. What I mean by this is – while the roster is better on paper and in terms or rules changes – the meta is less forgiving… there is a lot more starting tackle about, lots of teams got cheaper better starting rosters, and free skills, and I suspect this will ultimately hurt Gobbos more than the changes they received due to Tackle MB being more prevalent and Orcs, Undead, OWA and Nurgle being everywhere.
The biggest boon they got is their Trolls can finally Re-roll freely. This is huge!! And something I’ve been calling for since 2008. So glad it’s finally here. Also Swoop is back to being useful again. Nothing spectacular, but its useful to have in the team until you get +ag on a gobbo. I stat increased a gobbo and the Diver at the same time. The gobbo got Ag and the diver got +Av so Diver was retired at that point. I also enjoy taunt on the Ooligan. It is useful for cage breaking. But most of all the threat of the chainsaw rather than using it is actually very nice. Finally the important thing to remember with gobbos is topping up your inducement money to get at least 1 bribe a game, makes things much more manageable for you.
My team if you are interested in seeing how they go on so far: https://fumbbl.com/t/1266446
Lizardmen
I have mixed feelings, personally I dislike the change to the roster. But putting that aside… I started with the full roster, 1 RR and intended on getting leader after game 1 or 2. It took a little bit longer than I’d hoped, and those early games were really tense, and I had to concentrate properly to make sure I didn’t make any mistakes. And two of the teams 3 draws came early one when I only had 1 rr. But once I got Leader and a couple of skills the team played like Lizardmen of old with the boon of having the freedom to blitz with any player, accepting that push back is a fine outcome… I won the next 8 and drew 1 and found them to be a top tier team still. I just generally prefer the simplicity and costing of the older roster.
My team if you are interested in seeing how they go on so far:
https://fumbbl.com/t/1260972
Tomb Kings
These are also one of my favourite races to play now, for the same reason as Chaos. I was excited to see how the additional boons they received would help. What I found is that their gains were really marginal. Brawler is a lovely skill to have on the Tomb Guardians. That said I often had to use a team RR rather than Brawler as failure would have been too costly to risk the brawler roll. There were other occasions however in which I was able to turn a both down into a pow. Similarly the throw Ra buff is nice, but in 9 games I think he probably only got blocked twice. Certainly nice to have a little more security… but I don’t think it has any major impact on the team, at least now at low tv anyway. In short… Tomb Kings are marginally better. But ultimately I think they will record a similar win percentage in Black box to their performance level in 2020 edition which was 52%. I wouldn’t expect this to climb significantly.. maybe a percentage point or 2 after enough games have been played… Their problem is still as it always was.. They are very slow and lack agility. So if they concede in turn 8 it’s unlikely they’ll be able to achieve more than a draw. Which is fine. The roster rewards good play and sound Blood Bowl tactics. I was disappointed with my performance to be honest.. I made a few stupid mistakes in games, I expect better of myself.
My team if you are interested in seeing how they go on so far:
https://fumbbl.com/t/1259532
Wood Elfs
Much the same as they’ve always been… I played with what I consider a slightly suboptimal build, just to try them out. I don’t think I’d start with a tree normally. But Tree can also be useful.. it’s not that cut and dry either way. But generally I’d go 2 WD, 2 Catcher 2RR, or maybe even 1 thrower 1 catcher rather than 2 catcher and get leader after game 1 or 2. Price reduction on the thrower, catcher and linemen is really nice. Sure the WDs are more expensive but that doesn’t really matter. Gold is in abundance in this edition anyway. The team develops VERY quickly, as they always have, and will likely be excellent in scheduled leagues, at least for the first few seasons, while other races play catch up. In Blackbox I’d expect them to perform about the team they already do… Though the meta could hurt them a little bit. There is a lot of tackle and mb out there VERY early.
My team if you are interested in seeing how they go on so far:
https://fumbbl.com/t/1256452
Rosters I played against
Orcs
These are just bananas… So strong. Taunt and Mighty Blow is a really nasty combination on the Blockers. Taunt actually saves you from hitting them sometimes so you don’t leave your self in a tricky position the following turn. Other times you have to hit them roll pushes and then they get a free MB hit against you the following turn. Also one Blocker likely starts with Pro, which makes them even more effective at dishing out the pain. Their Blitzers are now very mobile with Break Tackle, and they start with a Troll for pitch control, plus have a decent TTM option. I think Orcs are one of the strongest teams in the game. In Blackbox their win ratio may suffer for the reason it always has…. i.e. the roster appeals to noobs which impacts their win ratio… But in good hands they will be one of the dominant races…
Ogre
I’ve played a few games vs ogres and I really enjoyed them. The boon of KTM working with Bullseye (which could change after FAQ) gives them a pretty reliable missile weapon. And most importantly its pretty easy getting an Ag stat increase, plus Break Tackle, which gives them an excellent cage breaking threat. They are still a lower tier team obviously. But these boosts has made them a little stronger in my view.
Undead
Much like Orcs they will be everywhere at first.. Start with 2x Mb, 2x Block, Tackle, 2x Dodge, ghouls getting regen, zombies getting eye gouge (which is mostly irrelevant). The downside is that losing a ghoul or 2 can hurt (probably more so in a tournaments setting, either res style or a cup on fumbbl). But generally speaking they’re just an excellent team, and will continue to perform around the same level as before.
Nurgle
I was quite excited to play with Nurgle when the book dropped, but after playing against them I think this is one of the most over described, most boring teams I’ve ever played against. Steady Footing is covered above and I detest this skill. Starting with Stand Firm x4 and Pick me Up, just means the game descends into really boring scrum with no enjoyment to be had… Really strongly dislike the roster changes. It’s over described and not fun. From the teams I mentioned above I have a 4/2/0 record against them… so It’s not that they are winning and creating feel bads. I’ve not been beaten by them in my test games. But I’ve not had less fun playing Blood Bowl since the Bomber debacle at the start of 2020 edition… I wont play with them. Sadly I think they will be very popular.
OWA
I had pretty good record vs them, I think this is still likely to be one of the big winners this edition. But maybe it has been slightly overstated, by myself included… Time will tell on this one.
Bretonnians
This is a tricky one to measure.. firstly its nigh-on impossible to tell the players apart in game. I’m hoping we have some new icons fairly soon. But generally I think they are as expected really good out the gate, but I don’t see them going anywhere. I think in the data we might even see them performing very well due to the majority of games being played at very low TV. And they are a pain to deal with… Maybe not as bad as I first thought… but certainly not gonna be dominating and tournaments Naf or Fumbbl…
Imp Nobs
These guys are just MUCH better than they were. They’re a bit over described for me skill wise.. but at least they feel like a proper team now.
High Elf
I think they are VERY strong. But My Ball does make their game plan quite linear and restricts their tactics. I think I need to play them myself to give a proper judgement of the team.. But I suspect they will be one of the top teams coz they have everything…, their win ratio could again suffer for being the new thing, and weaker coaches playing them… much like orcs. But they are clearly excellent. I’m surprised people aren’t leaning into the sacker aspect of the lion warrior more, getting them dodge strip ag+
The rest I don’t think I really got to experience them enough to make any further points…
Long read, but that’s my thoughts on things.
What do you think? |
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Last edited by Garion on Mar 27, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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HaruHaru
Joined: Sep 05, 2019
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Mar 27, 2026 - 13:36 |
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I am upset. They removed random secondaries from skills, but still have the random primaries.
They might've as well have gone back to the 2d6 skill up system they used to have. It was better. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 27, 2026 - 13:37 |
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Thanks for sharing your detailed feedback, Garion, much appreciated!
Which votes would you assign to both BB2020 and BB2025 rulesets, on a scale from 1 to 10? |
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Jayward
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
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Mar 27, 2026 - 13:50 |
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Interesting read! I absolutely agree with everything you've said about ward saves, token use, and bloaty rules. I think my main point of disagreement is on Stats and Elite Skills.
Stats costing fewer SPP and less TV is not a positive change in my opinion.
And with Elite skills I think the problem with the skill system is that so few skills are actually worth 20k TV. You could remove 2/3 of the skills from the game and it would barely make a difference because they're so rarely worth taking. If you removed the entire passing tree people would only really miss Leader.
Yeah, Block, Dodge, and Guard are much better than other skills. But it doesn't help that they're having to clear a really low bar.
And the Elite skill cost is inconsistently applied. For example, Orcs already have Block and MB but haven't seemed to pay the price, so they've got a 40k leg up against any team that has to get that through advancement.
Roster wise I have very much enjoyed the new Dark Elves. The Assassins are a really fun piece that give you options no other team has. Shame the Runner is even worse than before now most of the team passes on a 3+, but hey, maybe they'll fix it in a few years when the next edition rolls around. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 27, 2026 - 13:51 |
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| Jayward wrote: |
Stats costing fewer SPP and less TV is not a positive change in my opinion.
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No we agree there too. I just like that they've made the Good Stats harder to roll, 2x Ma was too easy to get before. Maybe I didn't make myself clear... what's written above was just a stream of consciousness 
| Jayward wrote: |
And the Elite skill cost is inconsistently applied. For example, Orcs already have Block and MB but haven't seemed to pay the price, so they've got a 40k leg up against any team that has to get that through advancement. |
and I agree with you there. The idea of elite skill is good though imo, but yes the implementation is poor, and player cost seems to be incoherent now.
| MattDakka wrote: | Thanks for sharing your detailed feedback, Garion, much appreciated!
Which votes would you assign to both BB2020 and BB2025 rulesets, on a scale from 1 to 10? |
I don't really do 1 to 10 scores. But BB2020 (at launch) was the worst rule set we've had since 4th Edition Gold IMO, Which Jervis Johnson said himself was a terrible mistake and binned it within months, which ended in the creation of the BBRC. 2020 edition was okay by the end of the edition, after many erratas and so on... So it's hard to even quantify. Though I still deeply dislike some things about 2020, such as the apo/cas table, wildly inaccurate and so on...
This is a MUCH better launch but still has a number of big problems. We need to get the FAQ asap before making a fully informed decision. My fundamental flaws with this edition are how prescribed and over described many rosters are now... and how much admin there is, and how many ward saves type things there are. |
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BitsHammer
Joined: Sep 05, 2020
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Mar 27, 2026 - 14:04 |
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I can't really weigh in on everything myself as my games have been focused on a local league where I've been keeping my foot off the gas instead of trying to steamroll a league of new players with an optimized Vampire team. That said I have been paying attention and from what I can tell is that some teams feel more designed for league than tournament play. Bretonnians feel like they're in this group as their skills mean they will take less damage which means they will keep their players around longer which makes it easier to build skills on them. They aren't offensively strong, but they have a sort of baked in durability that goes beyond the usual block/dodge method of making players more survivable.
There is a lot to love about this edition, but there is definitely a lot that I find less exciting. For example they clearly feel block and dodge is too prevalent, but the incentive structure to encourage the use of other skills just isn't there, and more pieces could have started with skills that counter those skills, like Wrestle, or Diving Tackle. I'm not saying every team needs those skills, but they need to be common enough that the general power of block and dodge isn't always the top skill.
Now, I have a different complaint about team building that has to do with the miniature based part of the game: you still often need two boxes to get enough linemen. Something that just leaves coaches with positionals they can't use. I don't hate the limited positionals on starting rosters as it takes a bit of wind out of the sales of some teams who were running their best positional x4 in their starting rosters while ignoring other parts of the team entirely. There should be a balance point between the extremes we've seen but GW hasn't found it yet.
I've thought about a post draft team getting up to double of their positionals allowing teams to build up differently over time in leagues. Alternatively a reserve bench that allows you to buy extra positionals but not bring more to a game than the number your draft roster allows. This would allow teams to rotate out players to develop new ones for their positionals, as well as let positionals recover from injuries without being stuck relying on mercenaries to cover the gap due to the new hire then fire post-game steps. I don't think either is perfect, but neither are the current team rosters.
Lastly, I don't hate the flavor pivot for dwarfs to go back to being a team that bends the rules like they were in 2nd, but they need more to work with that just the Deathroller and fouling, and the team should have gotten cheaper with many of the changes they got skillwise. Like this would have been a good time to bring back the dwarf with a chainsaw as a positional option. Additionally, defensive isn't a bad skill, but the linemen really need something else for their price that does more than shut down the rare player that comes with guard base.
They aren't the only team in a rough spot of course. I don't really like where Gnomes or Halflings are these days for example, and on the flipside, Snotlings are too strong because they got too many buffs and likely need one of their perks removed.
Basically, balance needs work from every direction. And I'm not really sure on the best fixes for everything, but when someone is as few games this edition as I've had can spot issues that's not exactly helping the game. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 27, 2026 - 14:32 |
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| BitsHammer wrote: | | I don't hate the limited positionals on starting rosters as it takes a bit of wind out of the sales of some teams who were running their best positional x4 in their starting rosters while ignoring other parts of the team entirely. There should be a balance point between the extremes we've seen but GW hasn't found it yet. |
Yes, I guess that having 0-3 positionals would have been a right compromise between 0-4 and 0-2 positionals.
4 might be too many, but 2 are too few.
Also, 0-2 positionals' cap makes the rosters of the same races too similar each other. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 27, 2026 - 15:23 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | BitsHammer wrote: | | I don't hate the limited positionals on starting rosters as it takes a bit of wind out of the sales of some teams who were running their best positional x4 in their starting rosters while ignoring other parts of the team entirely. There should be a balance point between the extremes we've seen but GW hasn't found it yet. |
Yes, I guess that having 0-3 positionals would have been a right compromise between 0-4 and 0-2 positionals.
4 might be too many, but 2 are too few.
Also, 0-2 positionals' cap makes the rosters of the same races too similar each other. |
there is nothing wrong with having 0-4 for most of the positionals if not all that used to have them...
the changes made for "so it matches what you get in a box" are nonsense... because you need a 2nd box to complete teams anyway |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 27, 2026 - 15:46 |
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Oh yes, I'm not against 0-4 positionals. I meant, if they wanted to decrease the positionals, 0-3 would have been less drastic than 0-2. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 27, 2026 - 16:19 |
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| BitsHammer wrote: |
I don't really like where Gnomes or Halflings are these days for example, and on the flipside, Snotlings are too strong because they got too many buffs and likely need one of their perks removed.
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Yeah flings are dead, giving teams starting tackle is terrible for the game, design wise. Creates SUPER strong counters in some match ups. Flings are beyond terrible now, in league or perpetual environment. I think Goblins will probably be worse than they were due to the all the tackle about... and the Diving Tackle Tackle. Gnomes I don't think having changed that much though, there's slightly more starting Might Blow about. which is bad for them... but yeah those 3 are in a bad spot. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Mar 27, 2026 - 16:37 |
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I like High Elves!
Had no desire to play the new rules before them. Now it's pretty much all I'll play I guess. |
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ThierryM
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
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Mar 27, 2026 - 17:47 |
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BB has the same "problem" as all the other GW's franchises in the fact that it tries to content all the different players with a global ruleset.
There are many differencies between a competitive player (CR E-penis / Irl tournaments min-maxers) that will try and optimize all his choices on his roster, a casual coach playing for the interaction and fun with his opponent or a perpetual league player that wants to develop a lore accurate / fun backstory for his squad (and so on for the types of players).
How can you please everyone ?
My guess is, you can't.
3rd Season is not flawless but it didn't break the game too much and kept most of its "Spirit". |
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Breeder of Bony Legends !
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Mar 27, 2026 - 21:56 |
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I have played only 11 games of BB2025 so far in a local league where I'm the most experienced player by far save one player, so most of my stuff should be taken with a grain of salt, but here are some of my thoughts on what's been said. Also, I don't play much NAF, so all of my opinions are based on progression. I also agree with a lot of what has been said here, so I'm mostly only going to mention things that I either disagree with or agree especially strongly with.
| Garion wrote: | | Gnomes I don't think having changed that much though, there's slightly more starting Might Blow about. which is bad for them... but yeah those 3 are in a bad spot. |
They are now the only stunties that actually need to pay the 10k on dodge, which isn't great for them.
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Imp Nobs
These guys are just MUCH better than they were. They’re a bit over described for me skill wise.. but at least they feel like a proper team now.
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Agreed but it makes me sad. I played Nobs before they were cool and now they're just a solid team.
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OWA
I had pretty good record vs them, I think this is still likely to be one of the big winners this edition. But maybe it has been slightly overstated, by myself included… Time will tell on this one.
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My opinion has been since they are revealed that this is a good team that's had its virtues wildly overstated. I've had multiple people tell me they are a top 5 team, and I just don't buy it. At any TV, I can name 5 teams I think are stronger, though I think they can possibly be averaging out to a top 5 team, since I think they should be good at every TV, and most teams aren't. My real problem with the buff is that when humans lost 2 blitzers at the same time, I just find humans a dead roster now. Might as well just play OWA.
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Nurgle
I was quite excited to play with Nurgle when the book dropped, but after playing against them I think this is one of the most over described, most boring teams I’ve ever played against. Steady Footing is covered above and I detest this skill. Starting with Stand Firm x4 and Pick me Up, just means the game descends into really boring scrum with no enjoyment to be had… Really strongly dislike the roster changes. It’s over described and not fun. From the teams I mentioned above I have a 4/2/0 record against them… so It’s not that they are winning and creating feel bads. I’ve not been beaten by them in my test games. But I’ve not had less fun playing Blood Bowl since the Bomber debacle at the start of 2020 edition… I wont play with them. Sadly I think they will be very popular.
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Personally I've always hated facing Nurgle, even with teams that are good against them. They have so many random things you have to check against them with Foul Appearance, Disturbing Presence and Tentacles that it just feels like a chore to play against. Now with Steady Footing and Stand Firm out of the box, that's only going to be worse.
That said, I suspect I will really like playing as Nurgle, so I have to take my lumps if other people want to play as them too.
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Lizardmen
I have mixed feelings, personally I dislike the change to the roster. But putting that aside… I started with the full roster, 1 RR and intended on getting leader after game 1 or 2. It took a little bit longer than I’d hoped, and those early games were really tense, and I had to concentrate properly to make sure I didn’t make any mistakes. And two of the teams 3 draws came early one when I only had 1 rr. But once I got Leader and a couple of skills the team played like Lizardmen of old with the boon of having the freedom to blitz with any player, accepting that push back is a fine outcome… I won the next 8 and drew 1 and found them to be a top tier team still. I just generally prefer the simplicity and costing of the older roster.
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I think the roster has gotten less new player friendly, and they are probably a little weaker at rookie tv, but I love their new development path so much and cheap Juggs is so good after you get a little development. I love the changes to the team, and Lizards were already my favorite team.
My favorite thing to do with them now is once I get 2 saureese to have block to build the third to have Frenzy and Tackle as its first skills. Its so much fun that that's a viable path for them now.
As you said, I just don't see a good development path for them, and yet they will be basically just as good as before at rookie tv. So I think its the worst of all worlds. People who hate Dorfs are still going to see them all the time at low tv. People who like dorfs now don't get the option to really play the team past that point anymore. One of my least favorite changes in the edition.
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* Dodgy Snacks – This is fine on fumbbl as it automatically gets added to a player and it’s easy to track. But on tabletop this is just more in game admin, and more token use, which detracts from the game and slows things down. |
Bring back throw a rock, I want players to die on kickoff.
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* Steady Footing – this is the worst skill this game has ever had, not in terms of how good it is. But in its design. It is anti-fun, anti-strategy and due to how it is written - it activates after an event has occurred. e.g. you play a half and strategically break open a cage/screen and hit their ball carrier, knocking them over. Then magically, they just stay standing and keep holding the ball. Or you defend really well and their ball carrier has to make a string of unlikely dodges to score. They fail a dodge roll, the player goes down and then magically they keep their feet and keep moving forward. It creates real feel bad moments and detracts from the skill of the game, and there is no agency involved. If being knocked down while holding the ball and keeping your footing resulted in the ball being dropped still, then fair enough. Or if when you failed the dodge but kept your footing you dropped that ball then again that wouldn’t be as bad. Personally, I also believe the players activation should end right there, they should not be able to keep moving forward. But it is what it is, and as previously stated this is the worst designed skill the game has had to date, including the original 1993 Pilling On… |
While I actually don't like that this is a skill, and would prefer it a trait unique to grail knights, I think this is overstating it. You are looking at it like magically your strategy was taken away from you, but it's really no different from before, except that the odds are changed. Blocking decisions were always about the odds, when you did good blocks to get a hit on the ball and rolled 2 pushes, does that detract from the skill of the game like you said Steady Footing does? I don't think it does, I think sometimes a die roll just doesn't go your way, and the game is about putting yourself in the position where you are most likely to have the die roll go your way. Again, I don't like steady footing as a skill, but I feel like I need to push back against the level of the argument against it here.
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Secure The Ball Action – this is the single best change in this edition, I have been playing a house rule for years where you get an additional +1to pick ups when there are no opposing players within 3 squares. Secure the Ball is a much better rule. I brilliant addition to the game. |
Personally don't like Secure the Ball and think it was really only added into the game because they wanted to put a team that really shouldn't be played by beginners (Khemri) in the starter box. Honestly I like your rule of getting a +1 if you aren't around anyone better, and I don't particularly like that rule either. I mostly play AG3+ teams because I've never enjoyed the elf playstyle, but I firmly believe you are supposed to have the negative that ball handling is harder if you choose to play a team with lesser agility.
| Quote: | | * Elite skill pricing, though I personally would have loved to have seen a 3rd category for bargain bin skills prices at 10k |
Personally I think all its really done (outside of for the teams that don't have to pay for their elite skills, that is 'Zons and Norse), is create a noob trap for people who think they are getting an advantage taking non-elite skills. 90+% of the time, if I've taken 50k more team value than you have because I've taken 5 more elite skills, I think I am significantly advantaged compared to you in our team strengths. All the elite skills, except maybe mighty blow, are simply worth more than 10k more than most skills generally.
It is neat that wrestle I think will be much better as "cheap" block now.
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No we agree there too. I just like that they've made the Good Stats harder to roll, 2x Ma was too easy to get before. Maybe I didn't make myself clear... what's written above was just a stream of consciousness |
Except they made AG and ST both easier to get, so I think this only leads to more cookie cutter stat freak players than the last edition. I would beg GW to move off being able to guarantee stats if I could. It remains one of the biggest design change mistakes blood bowl has made since GW paid attention to it again. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 27, 2026 - 22:01 |
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| Drrek wrote: |
| Garion wrote: | | Gnomes I don't think having changed that much though, there's slightly more starting Might Blow about. which is bad for them... but yeah those 3 are in a bad spot. |
They are now the only stunties that actually need to pay the 10k on dodge, which isn't great for them.
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Fair point but you don't really want to skill the gnomes up... just the fox needs skills |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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| Posted:
Mar 27, 2026 - 22:17 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Drrek wrote: |
| Garion wrote: | | Gnomes I don't think having changed that much though, there's slightly more starting Might Blow about. which is bad for them... but yeah those 3 are in a bad spot. |
They are now the only stunties that actually need to pay the 10k on dodge, which isn't great for them.
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Fair point but you don't really want to skill the gnomes up... just the fox needs skills |
I am not an experience gnome gamer, but I would think you want some dodge on at least the 2 guard pieces, and probably on a gnome or 2 as sackers. Yeah only the fox needs it to score, but the other half of the game I think you want some dodge. |
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Nurgle rot's bu...
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