Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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 Posted:
Apr 13, 2026 - 01:31 |
 
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| Loon wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | Loon wrote: | | Sp00keh wrote: | I had a game as -20k down underdog, so I bought a Mascot and a Prayer, spending 65k on inducements
Now I am the 45k overdog
Opponent can do nothing about this |
Can the former overdog not spend the 45k? |
Nope |
Well that is stupid!
I really don't understand why this is so hard. Overdog goes first, and anything they spend adds to their TV to calculate petty cash. Why is GW so bad at writing rules?
Or if you want underdogs to spend treasury, go back to the old system where you pre-assign petty cash from the treasury to increase your TV |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 13, 2026 - 01:44 |
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| Loon wrote: | | I really don't understand why this is so hard. Overdog goes first, and anything they spend adds to their TV to calculate petty cash. Why is GW so bad at writing rules? |
That leaves the decision of exactly how many inducements both teams can get in the hands of the overdog. So around the fringes of affordability, they can tactically limit the specific inducements that the underdog can buy (spending 5k less than a particular underdog star player costs, for example). A catch-up mechanic is supposed to assist the weaker player, it shouldn't be gameable for the stronger player to hobble that mechanic. If one player or other is to be able to tactically "nudge" the inducement level one way or other at the edges, it makes much more sense for that player to be the underdog. That's what happens in the new rules, to the tune of 50k. And this ability isn't free of course, that's real cash (not gifted petty cash) that the underdog, who's already behind in team strength in the league, is spending on one-time inducements and therefore is not than spending on a permanent, reliable strength increase to their team. It's balanced by the fact that the underdog loses out on unspent petty cash if their preferred inducement package is slightly short of their allowance. Now, for a price, in other cases they can be slightly over in the other direction. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Apr 13, 2026 - 04:19 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Drrek wrote: | | Personally hate Underdog being able to spend up. Team Mascot and Prayers are good adds so that there's actually something to buy when you have a small difference, prayers are, however very underpriced RAW (which is why fumbbl uses 30k prayers). |
yeah. I'm REALLY glad christer house ruled that, or there would be minimum 2 every single game |
I think the whole point of 10K prayers was to incentive players to take them. Now FUMBBL has set a precedent by house ruling something that someone didn't like. At 30K, prayers are pretty questionable: several of them don't confer an in-game relative bonus to the team that got them, of the rest, only 2 are arguably worth more than 30K (and even those can depend on which race the opposition is).
So houseruling Prayers will largely eliminate them as a sensible choice when they seem to be something the game designers wanted to be an important and fun feature of the game. Good coaches at 30K should now avoid taking prayers, given their high cost and variance to receiving something useful at all that impacts winning.
A team mascot seems to be a no-brainer for 25K instead. |
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Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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Apr 13, 2026 - 05:17 |
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| Grod wrote: | | Now FUMBBL has set a precedent by house ruling something that someone didn't like. |
Oh noes, people have told me if we don't play every GW rule as written, especially the bad ones, nobody will play here!! What shall we do?? |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Apr 13, 2026 - 05:47 |
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| Loon wrote: | | Grod wrote: | | Now FUMBBL has set a precedent by house ruling something that someone didn't like. |
Oh noes, people have told me if we don't play every GW rule as written, especially the bad ones, nobody will play here!! What shall we do?? |
Mate, did you lose your old account, made a new one and have actually been here for more than 2 years? Otherwise it's a bit of a d#$% move to be that dismissive on something you have no history on. |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Apr 13, 2026 - 09:28 |
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| Garion wrote: |
yeah. I'm REALLY glad christer house ruled that, or there would be minimum 2 every single game |
Where can i find this house rule update? Maybe i read quick but i did not find inducement or petty cash section here
https://fumbbl.com/BB2025.pdf |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 13, 2026 - 09:52 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
yeah. I'm REALLY glad christer house ruled that, or there would be minimum 2 every single game |
Where can i find this house rule update? Maybe i read quick but i did not find inducement or petty cash section here
https://fumbbl.com/BB2025.pdf |
You are looking in the right place |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 13, 2026 - 10:03 |
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| Grod wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | Drrek wrote: | | Personally hate Underdog being able to spend up. Team Mascot and Prayers are good adds so that there's actually something to buy when you have a small difference, prayers are, however very underpriced RAW (which is why fumbbl uses 30k prayers). |
yeah. I'm REALLY glad christer house ruled that, or there would be minimum 2 every single game |
I think the whole point of 10K prayers was to incentive players to take them. Now FUMBBL has set a precedent by house ruling something that someone didn't like. At 30K, prayers are pretty questionable: several of them don't confer an in-game relative bonus to the team that got them, of the rest, only 2 are arguably worth more than 30K (and even those can depend on which race the opposition is).
So houseruling Prayers will largely eliminate them as a sensible choice when they seem to be something the game designers wanted to be an important and fun feature of the game. Good coaches at 30K should now avoid taking prayers, given their high cost and variance to receiving something useful at all that impacts winning.
A team mascot seems to be a no-brainer for 25K instead. |
I don't think this is the first time this has happened. During CRP Christer allowed certain cards and did not allow others. Only specific decks were selectable in the special play cards inducements.. I'd say the Prayers house rule is very much in the same wheelhouse... Just limiting the amount of wild luck occurrences that can impact games.
Even at 30k I think they're pretty good value, and if lucky some are HUGE game changers. I've taken a mascot and a Prayer before and it's a pretty good deal. I think we will see a lot of this when people play in majors. If they were priced at 10k I think it'd potentially be game ruining, as there aren't that many and if both teams took 3 each every game (which would happen all the time)... it'd be an awful experience. At least in my opinion.
I'd say the following are all worth 30k in the right circumstances:
Treacherous Trapdoor
Friends with the Ref
Stiletto
Iron Man
Knuckle Dusters
Bad Habits
Greasy Cleats
Moles under the Pitch
Throw a Rock
Under Scrutiny
Intensive Training
even the Pro one could be good with a bit of luck |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Apr 13, 2026 - 10:11 |
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I think 20 is fairer for prayers, maybe 25. I'm happy with 30 personally, cos I hate them.
Maybe GW intended the game to revolve around them.
That doesn't mean that they were right or that it would be a good thing.
But maybe they were right, it's just opinions after all.
I'd be fine with banning them or limiting them to 0-1, you can only get your prayers answered once! |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 13, 2026 - 10:52 |
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| Garion wrote: | I'd say the following are all worth 30k in the right circumstances:
[...] |
Treacherous Trapdoor doesn't even advantage the praying player. It's team neutral! Sure, your team might be slightly better placed to take advantage because of your respective skill sets, but equally likely it will be the opposing team that's best placed. Nett expected value for the praying team: exactly zero!
Friends with the Ref? It's nice to have, but it's one extra pip on the arguing dice. So you need to argue the call with 180k cumulative worth of fouling players to "make" 30k of expected value out of it, and never roll a 1 on the arguing rolls before you get there. Which means (assuming the absolute best case scenario where you maximise assists to always break armour) you need make fouls with a cumulative 580k worth of fouling player over the course of the game. That's 9.6 fouls with a bog-standard 60k lino. And don't ever roll a 1 on the arguing remember! If so, then your expected value is 30k from Friends with the Ref.
Bad Habits? You're just being silly now: that one's just a bit of disconcerting visual clutter in the skill box.  But for the maths you'd need your opponent to deliberately choose to use at least three of their team re-rolls over the course of the match on the randomly selected player(s) to get an expected value of 30k out of it (assuming 60k team re-rolls).
There are lots of people who seem to overvalue randomness because they crave predictability in their Blood Bowl. But randomness can equally randomly do absolutely nothing (and in the case of some of the probabilities on the prayers not only can but is very likely to!). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 13, 2026 - 11:20 |
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yeah fair point about trapdoor..
The rest I think you are missing the point I'm making. As you say very few are worth a true 30k, as in - you would not add most of them to your roster for that cost if it was an option, nor would you expect to get your value back in game necessarily. But what I am saying is - as a TV underdog it is worth spending the 30k to get one of those because it could impact the game in your favour with zero risk to you and some are VERY VERY good. And if they were 10k as they're meant to be.. I think you'd see 6 in play most games... |
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Last edited by Garion on Apr 13, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Apr 13, 2026 - 11:20 |
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Throw a rock is a good example, it's potentially mini-wizard, but really it's just not
It's also annoying in fumbbl because you get the popup every turn until u get rid of it,
And annoying on tabletop because you need to remember it exists |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Apr 13, 2026 - 11:32 |
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Anyway, regardless of the various merits of the prayers, the thread is about inducements
So, because gold is pretty abundant in this ruleset, eg +10k for not stalling
It means most teams quickly get gold-rich
Previously I'd use gold to cycle players on random skillups, but that's only niche now
So then, teams can only really use gold for inducement spend
Overdog it doesn't make much sense because you're just giving the same thing to the underdog
Underdog spending definitely makes sense
Either u spend small amounts to step up from 20k to 25k so u can get a Mascot, or whatever
Or u go harder and spend as much of the 50k as u can, like my previous example
Someone already mentioned, but it also means you can't 'game' your TV level for scheduled games, in leagues or tourney
I've had cases where I fired a player so I could get a certain star,
Or I readied at 145k bigger than my opponent so they couldn't get a wizard, etc
All of that doesn't work now
Aha, my favourite one in 2020 was, 5k underdog Orcs vs Undead
I bought an assistant coach for the roster, making me overdog
Then I bought Bomber (when he was good) giving the opponent 55k inducements, and Undead can't hire Bomber, all they got was a keg
Then I fired the coach after the game |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 13, 2026 - 11:41 |
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| Loon wrote: |
Well that is stupid!
I really don't understand why this is so hard. Overdog goes first, and anything they spend adds to their TV to calculate petty cash. Why is GW so bad at writing rules? |
I'd like this rule, instead: the overdog team can't spend gold to buy Inducements; the underdog team may hire Inducements up to the TV difference. |
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BeanBelly
Joined: Nov 14, 2019
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| Posted:
Apr 13, 2026 - 11:53 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | I had a game as -20k down underdog, so I bought a Mascot and a Prayer, spending 65k on inducements
Now I am the 45k overdog |
This is also what I was concerned about.
I had a game where the underdog spent additional treasury gold to afford a Wizard. It did not affect the result as they beat me easily anyway. But it got me thinking is this now a common way to get an edge in matches?
I've not really played enough BB2025 to scry the meta..
P.S. With myself as underdog, a few times I have had 20k petty cash and topped it up to 25k from Treasury for the Mascot |
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