Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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 Posted:
May 04, 2026 - 20:35 |
 
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| ph0enyx13 wrote: | | All of the rules since 2016 have tried to get away from the LRB4/6 murder teams to deal with high tv and unlimited growth[...] |
Redraft doesn't even shut that down completely. It just limits it to the latter part of the season. It's perfectly possible (especially after the rules update) to build players with some real tricksy level-ups within a single season. CastleMan's team is a case in point, I know as I was the one facing them in game 15 of their season.  It's even within the realms of possibility after only six matches to get yourself a Blodging, Iron Hard Skinned Beast of Khorne with Break Tackle to rampage around the pitch murdering people with the mobility of some sort of corrupted wardancer: https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=17856524 And you still have more than half the season left to enjoy him!
Redraft provides some sort of upper cap against 'perpetual league syndrome', but I think in reality the TV-matching procedure of the scheduler has far more impact in determining what sort of progression track teams actually choose to take in the Blackbox: on the whole it seems to be significantly below the available limit, and TV efficiency gaming is what predominantly drives it. |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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May 04, 2026 - 20:50 |
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I know the threat started with another Intention, but with the half-priced randoms gone and a price-increase for elite skills... Was there already a discussion (maybe started by Matt  ) if the re-draft budget needs to be adjusted. |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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May 04, 2026 - 21:00 |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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May 04, 2026 - 21:16 |
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It kind of seems within the rule set of redrafting that you are rewarded not skilling up many players, saving all your money for after the 15th game, and making sure to repurchase your star(s). Then go to 1250-1350 TV and play against an upcoming team with a handful of games. Seems like that is not what they wanted to happen with this mechanic but is seems most optimal. Min Maxing disguised as redrafting. 😞
Or maybe I am way off and have no idea what I am talking about. I am stoned right now so that could be a possibility. |
Last edited by CastleMan on May 04, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 04, 2026 - 21:18 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | lack of redraft increases the power of stat-freak aberrations and/or certain races compared to others in unbalanced way. Creates game mechanics that are fun for the fluff but terrible for everything else
Playing a division without Redraft eventually leads to a game where the outcome ultimately hinges on whether your snake your stat freaked legend or not.
My definition of competitive play is one in which the coach who plays best strategically, positionally, and tactically (globally) is rewarded, not the one who rolls the best dice with a couple of stat freak.
This used to happen a lot in the past, and it was awful. |
Season 1 teams do not have to play vs S2+ teams except in tournaments.
But it seems that not many people are now actually playing S2+ anyway
It seems that you have killed open S2+ to protect people who were never going to be playing S2+ teams anyway outside of tournaments.
Yet you rarely scrape 100 coaches for a Major now, when it used to be 200-300+.
Even the 2019 FC got 218 coaches when the total number of games played on Fumbbl were similar to now.
But hey, I guess it's all better now that you have got rid of us.  |
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Official + Secret League rosters, old style skill progression, NO re-draft OR full 2016 rules. OR... 4000TV All Star Bowl - ALWAYS recruiting!
Last edited by koadah on May 04, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 04, 2026 - 21:24 |
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| CastleMan wrote: | | Chingis not my spawn |
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting it was. It was just a memorably-impressive player that I'd recently seen in the wild that had been built with enviable speed! |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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| Posted:
May 04, 2026 - 21:33 |
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| Chingis wrote: | | CastleMan wrote: | | Chingis not my spawn |
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting it was. It was just a memorably-impressive player that I'd recently seen in the wild that had been built with enviable speed! |
Oh. Combined the two sentences, the one of the spawn and the one were you mentioned me. Cheers brother. |
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ultwe
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
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May 04, 2026 - 23:14 |
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| ph0enyx13 wrote: |
lol 4000k tv dark elves with a 7x niggle player |
Niggles were different back then.
They could prevent the player from actually take part in the game, rather than increase the chance/severity of injury. That team regularly started games with 7 or 6 players only (and could compete) |
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Yeah, Nuffle sucks... That's because I play crap
Ï€ is aproximately 3.142 times better than any other food |
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ultwe
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
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| Posted:
May 04, 2026 - 23:20 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | lack of redraft increases the power of stat-freak aberrations and/or certain races compared to others in unbalanced way. Creates game mechanics that are fun for the fluff but terrible for everything else
Playing a division without Redraft eventually leads to a game where the outcome ultimately hinges on whether your snake your stat freaked legend or not.
My definition of competitive play is one in which the coach who plays best strategically, positionally, and tactically (globally) is rewarded, not the one who rolls the best dice with a couple of stat freak.
This used to happen a lot in the past, and it was awful. |
In my experience, the best coaches were still winning, whether they were playing 2k+ monster teams, or 1k starters. A really badly-timed snake will decide a game at any level, so these coaches could still lose to average/bad coaches like me but overall, they were winning a majority of their games |
_________________
Yeah, Nuffle sucks... That's because I play crap
Ï€ is aproximately 3.142 times better than any other food |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 04, 2026 - 23:34 |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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May 04, 2026 - 23:36 |
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Old infinite league encouraged pretty weird games. Like where one team would hide in a corner, other team would wipe the other team for casualty SPPs and some foul injuries for lolz effect.
It was still a game of skill, but different skill. Surviving the other coaches claw po mb players, or fouling them out or claw po mb:ing them first. So skill and luck. But this new version with high variance is better.
You can get some really bad draws and some really bad dice, but overall you get less matchups where the other coach hides 8 squares away or their team is reset.
Old system also split the community into BBoxers, who would minmax and clawpo mb everything. And ranked´ers, where some coaches would not play a team with more than 4 mighty blow assuming its a grief team.
Can´t even talk about picking a match vs a nurgle with claw po mb block tackle. None would ever do it, cause the team might survive it, or you might lose 3 on round one.
I remember thinkin a knockout on first half might not last the entire game so we would piling on knockouts hoping for a cas or a perm. It was truely mad times. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 05, 2026 - 00:17 |
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Multi rr is bad for the strategic, positional, tactical aspect of the game.
Quite often there is no need to have a freak, you can get away with it with AG 3+ players (happened to me several times, on both sides of the fence). Crazy sequences that, with 1 rr per turn, could have not happened without a really good stat freak, performed by a rookie AG 3+ player and multi rr galore in the very last turn of the offensive drive.
1 rr per turn and harder rushing would be good for the strategic, positional, tactical aspect of the game.
About stat freaks: yes, they should be toned down, and Season Re-Draft fails at doing that anyway (I have 1 stat freak on 6 Season 2 BB 2025 teams). On top of that, stat boosts got cheaper in BB 2025, further encouraging and making easier to build and keep stat freaks.
You have just 1 freak and 2-3 developed players but, since the average TV is low or mid-low, 1 freak affects the games hugely.
Also, Re-Draft doesn't affect all the teams in the same way. Norse and Amazons are not very affected by it (because they need just a freak, the rest of the players start with good and underpriced skills), not as much as Chaos, Nurgle, Khorne or Lizardmen, for example.
It's a flawed way to keep the teams in check but it's the official way we have to deal with, since FUMBBL wants to stick as close as possible to official rules. This is the answer to: "Why Redrafting?" thread's title.
I guess the game designers wanted to make Blood Bowl look like a pseudo team manager simulator but they failed big time.
Hard cap, fewer skill slots per player, stat boosts capped at +1 per characteristic would have been way better than Re-Draft every X games. It's better to have a cap and limits affecting the teams each and every game than after each X games, because until the Re-Draft trim happens, a team can grow and have developed players unbalancing the games. It's a yo-yo effect which basically forces to minmax even if you don't want to minmax, if you want to stay competitive.
Last, but not least, a 15-game Season is too long for BB 2025 players' development speed.
Since we have to use Re-Draft, the Season's length should be shorter than 15 games. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
May 05, 2026 - 01:13 |
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| Chingis wrote: | | ph0enyx13 wrote: | | All of the rules since 2016 have tried to get away from the LRB4/6 murder teams to deal with high tv and unlimited growth[...] |
Redraft doesn't even shut that down completely. |
I don't think redrafting exists to get rid of the killers. I think it's more that they toned down the killers by preventing claw and MB from stacking for armor, removing piling on, ect and the seasons/redraft exist to add attrition back into perpetual/long running leagues because now those crazy stat freaks won't die on the pitch at the rate that they used to. Plus I assume leagues have always had the issue where returning teams end up getting too big and that problem is even worse with blackbox before the redraft and the cyanide based games where you had tv 2000+ kill teams as the "preferred" way to play
| CastleMan wrote: | It kind of seems within the rule set of redrafting that you are rewarded not skilling up many players, saving all your money for after the 15th game, and making sure to repurchase your star(s). Then go to 1250-1350 TV and play against an upcoming team with a handful of games. Seems like that is not what they wanted to happen with this mechanic but is seems most optimal. Min Maxing disguised as redrafting. 😞
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I think the 1250-1350 target is because that's where most NAF/Res games are played or about there. GW or whoever worked on the rules must feel like that's the best spot for balance and complexity on tabletop because too many skills can get confusing, slow down play and lead to unintentional balance problems. IDK if their current redraft is the best way to fix these issues, but I think that their goal was to try to keep league teams in that same "sweet spot" that most of the NAF games are played in. like the eurobowl ruleset right now has tier 1 teams at 1200 tv and tier 6 at 1420. you can get kind of heavy by the end of your 2nd+ season, but it keeps all of the 2nd+ season teams around the same tv band for league play instead of having to deal with a 1st or 2nd season team vs a 10th season team |
Last edited by ph0enyx13 on May 05, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 05, 2026 - 01:15 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Multi rr is bad for the strategic, positional, tactical aspect of the game.
Quite often there is no need to have a freak[...] |
Isn't that a good thing? Surely you want people to be able to do stuff with the basic game rules, and average players, and not only if they've got some levelled-up weirdo? |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
May 05, 2026 - 01:57 |
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| Carnis wrote: |
I remember thinkin a knockout on first half might not last the entire game so we would piling on knockouts hoping for a cas or a perm. It was truely mad times. |
It was always funny seeing a KO get turned into a stun |
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mairy pass + blizzar...
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