Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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 Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:15 |
 
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Add me to the no. 3 crowd. Fortunately, as Azure pointed out, it is not such a great deal with the normal CRP rosters. For Pygmys of course the bug means they are probably OP, which is very unfortunate indeed. Is it an option to temorarily change the Pygmy roster? |
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the.tok
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
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Aug 23, 2013 - 16:20 |
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I'm in no 3 too for two reasons :
-This bug is no more gamebreaking that any other bug, and it's always been ruled that we play it as the client said : why this one particularly? Look at Painstate thread for example, this seems a worse bug, shadowing is so rare anyway...
-Shadowing being so rare, and for sure not a top skill, i'd rather see it accidentally buffed a little than completely nerfed.
I can see the issue is different for stunty as shadowing is more common, but punishing people for taking a rare skill is not the way to go IMO |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:25 |
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So does this mean we can't hire Skitter Stab-Stab? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:31 |
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Changing the Pygmy roster is an option, I guess. That would be up to Whatball. Option 3, I didn't really consider it as an option, and in no way do I think we should go with a 'majority ruling'. However without someone to come forward and say why we should go with option 1 or 2 over 3, this is looking like the clear choice.
the.tok, I think I disagree with every single one of your points, totally. clearly you haven't read any of my points earlier.
1. Each bug is totally different, and cannot be viewed or ruled on equally. No bug is equal when it comes to 'game breaking'. This one though has the potential to alter a result completely, as it did in my last game.
2. No, it's not always ruled that we play as the client said. See what I wrote before. Clear abuse that the client would allow, is not allowed. Also see what I wrote about Vicius's advice on Vamp bugs.
3. I'm not aware of Painstate being a bug.
4. Shadowing being rare, has nothing to do with the situation, it is there.
5. Shadowing skill, should do what it states in the rulebook. Just because it is weak usually, should have no bearing on the protocol of how it should be used. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:34 |
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| gamelsetlmatch wrote: | | So does this mean we can't hire Skitter Stab-Stab? |
Clearly you do not understand what this thread is about, and see it as 'Those Staff are getting at us again'.
Which makes me wonder, why I bother approaching the community at large for input and an opinion...... |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 16:41 |
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Ok, let's look at a hypothetical situation (yes the chances of this are low, bloodly low, but it is possible).
FUMBBL cup final. Turn 7. Coach Demonspawn has a strip ball skink that can blitz the stalling wood elf catcher. Coach Angelcloud, has put a shadower on the skink. Demonspawn elects to blitz the carrier, and reaches him, only to find that his blitz has been negated by the shadowing bug. Angelcloud's turn 7 he moves the carrier to another spot, and puts the shadower back on the strip ball skink.
Turn 8, demonspawn again elects to blitz with the strip ball skink. Ok, what happens then?
Whatever is decided, all concerned should be aware of the correct protocol in this situation (and what should happen in the T7 blitz too). |
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C3I2
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:43 |
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The fun part is that its probably not a "shadowing bug" but a RR (dodge) bug. You dodge away, RR the dodge (with dodge or an RR) succeed, but do not manage to break free from shadowing, and cant blitz the shadowing player. |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:47 |
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I know exactly what this thread is about. I give you kudos for taking the initiative to educate the community of such an issue. From what I have seen from all of the comments, the majority don't see it as being that big of an issue and if they happen to not be able to do the block at the end, no big deal, it is just a game, move on and laugh about it with your opponent.
As far as 'the staff being out to get us'...I am just covering my bases because you are the one who mentioned repercussions for using the skill. Skitter Stab-Stab has shadowing and I can assure you that I will plop him on a player that can blitz my ball carrier with the hopes that the staff coming to get me =p
Since it hasn't been said yet...
I am sorry that your game wasn't as much fun for you because of this shadowing incident and I hope that your future games are able to be played without this situation coming up again because I am sure it will only further add to your frustration. |
Last edited by gamelsetlmatch on %b %23, %2013 - %16:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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Aug 23, 2013 - 16:50 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | A. Because stunty players (or players that are not concerned by tackle zones) exist in CRP too.
B. Because the bug affects the situation equally in both divisions.
C. Because it's plausible for the skill to be taken, due to this bug existing. |
Thanks! (I added bullet letters for you, I hope you don't mind.)
Regarding point A, stunty players are not so common in RB - only skinks are stunty that are not tier 3. I do not find it a problem if tier 3 players suck.
On point B and C, I think Shadowing still sucks. Block, Dodge, Guard and Mighty Blow are still better skills that Shadowing with bug. I do not see so much point of abuse - clawpomb minmax is a bigger problem.
***
I think the the administration should ponder carefully, if we want house rules that mandate non-obvious changes to the player behaviour, as I have the feeling, that we may have to live with FFB 1.0.5 for a long time.
Currently, we do not have any "site rules" of how to use the client as the site did have with SJ client. Such rules are hard to teach to people - they are worse UI than the dreaded Pop-ups. I would not take such rules lightly.
If this one gets a rule that says that Shadowing use in certain situations is punishable as abuse, I predict there are probably already some other bugs that would need the same treatement.
Frankly, I would think that it is really much, much easier to accept that Shadowing is currently wrongly buffed than make such house rules for coach conduct. Normally, there are only one or two Shadowing players on a team, so usually in RB it is feasible to use some other player to blitz with the bug in mind.
The bug is old, from 2012. I am a bit surprised that house rules regarding to it come in this phase. This seems to indicate that it does not occur every time. If I understood you correctly, and it does occur less than 1/13 of times, I would think that a house rule on that for RB is a bit overreaching. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:56 |
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| C3I2 wrote: | | The fun part is that its probably not a "shadowing bug" but a RR (dodge) bug. You dodge away, RR the dodge (with dodge or an RR) succeed, but do not manage to break free from shadowing, and cant blitz the shadowing player. |
This is incorrect (again as I stated earlier). The bug can manifest on a failed shadow attempt.
As long as I/everybody is aware of what to do in the situation, there will be no frustration. The frustration is making an ethical decision, that may not be needed.
Regarding repercussions on a coaches actions. To be honest I have no idea how to rule on that at the moment.
How should I react if a coach came to me, with replays, and well put documentation, that made it pretty clear a coach was taking shadowing to abuse this bug?
How do I react to that? (obviously I'd consult the other staff), but personally I have no idea how to handle that situation and neither should I have to. By having a correct protocol of using shadowing and it's bug, everybody will be very clear on what to do when it arises. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 16:58 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | How should I react if a coach came to me, with replays, and well put documentation, that made it pretty clear a coach was taking shadowing to abuse this bug? |
But this is already covered by site rules. Abusing obvious bugs for your own benefit, etc...
And has there even been a reported case of that yet, bearing in mind the bug has existed for quite a while already? |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 17:01 |
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In the case as you just illustrated, I would simply have that coach select a new skill for the player he was abusing the system with. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| gamelsetlmatch wrote: | | In the case as you just illustrated, I would simply have that coach select a new skill for the player he was abusing the system with. |
I'd set the coach on fire |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 17:06 |
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that doesn't sound very nice hehehe |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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That's why I'm not an admin  |
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