mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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How about if, for shadowing a blitzer, you're only allowed to click yes if you have a reasonable chance of success. Say at least equal MA. That way it stops abuse by players unlikely to succeed while still allowing use in normal situations |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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Aug 23, 2013 - 18:52 |
 
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the hard thing is, as someone who likes to use shadowing to mark players, is I am not always so sure who they are going to blitz with. The fact that the bug will be taken advantage off kind of sucks, but I know it will be taken care of. The skill shadowing is a powerful skill, sometimes over looked by players who have never used it, so they don't know how great it can be. I suspect shadowing will be picked a lot more. |
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Meanandugl
Joined: Feb 05, 2013
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Aug 23, 2013 - 19:15 |
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I fully agree with the statememts of Azure, Smeesh and bigGuy. Most important imo: there will be a lot of players who are not aware of any site rule which forbid shadowing. A site (not bb) rule which forbids to shadow the blitzer simply because of the bug, although the client allows it and it's a perfectly reasonable move will lead to endless discussions and players feeling treated unfair.
Make the bug known as good and often as possible and try to fix it, but don't impose a site rule which forbids shadowing of blitzers. |
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sann0638
Joined: Aug 09, 2010
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Aug 23, 2013 - 20:11 |
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I tend to flick off the client then flick back when it flashes at me to make the shadowing roll, so I often don't check if it's a blitzer or not, just check if there is any reason not to shadow. |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 20:36 |
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Proposed (very minor) rule:
Do not use shadowing if player is blitzing and they will remain in your tackle zone after moving.
This is a very specific case - but for example, if you have a cage of pygmies with shadowing, and the other player has to dodge into the cage for a blitz, then shadowing is nearly pointless even if it works - so you should not shadow here.
While not perfect (there are some cases where positioning wise you would want to shift a square). It does at least help in cases like blitzing into a cage/past a player.
I would not say to impose this rule right now - but perhaps with more testing of when the bug occurs - this could help minimize some instances of the bug. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Aug 23, 2013 - 21:16 |
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I've no idea how you'd hope to enforce that, is the thing.
Surely the precedent is the old 'differences from the board game' document. We don't house rule, but if there's a bug that makes something work a bit differently, sadly, we're stuck until such a time it's fixed. So be aware of the limitations of the client. Make coaches tick a new 'rules revision' as we do in such situations, so they know if they read it.
No solution is elegant or obvious. But we have precedent, and 'fixing' via following the client is at least enforceable?
It doesn't strike me (and by me, I mean techno idiot) as the world's toughest bug to squash. If it went to the top of Kalimar's list as an emergency, surely it'd go away within a couple of hours of the next time he tinkers? Or is that naively simplistic in the extreme? |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Aug 23, 2013 - 21:45 |
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This is weird... I've also played a lot of Pygmies, and I don't recall this bug happening. But it probably falls under the same blitz bug template that affects, for example, people who get a reroll pop-up mid-blitz.
Which makes me wonder whether it's the shadowing ITSELF that's causing the bug, or the pop-up that asks the blitzing player if he'd like to reroll the shadowing escape. (Or both!)
Also makes me wonder if playing those pop-ups slowly would avoid the bug... but I also don't know if playing the reroll pop-up slowly would actually do that, or if that's just a myth someone was spreading. (Though if so, it might explain why I don't tend to struggle with it... because I usually play BB while working, I'm usually off in another window while the opponent plays, and it takes me a couple seconds to click back and assess the situation.) |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Aug 23, 2013 - 21:50 |
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i haven't been able to reproduce neither this shadowing bug nor Painstate bug in test mode. I guess i'm missing some important bit on what's causing them. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Aug 23, 2013 - 23:23 |
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| Verminardo wrote: | | Concerning the point of "abusing" this bug, I would say it cannot really be abused as such, since marking players is the whole point of Shadowing, so you can hardly call it abuse if someone marks a player with his Shadower (Edit: well maybe if someone started spamming Shadowing on low MA players). |
EXACTLY. Shadowing is a Man Marking Skill and a Space Eating Skill (something designed to make or encourage your opponent to go around or find an alternate less direct route).
It is a less effective version of Diving Tackle... a version that tends to be used mainly by teams that do not have access to Agility Skills like Diving Tackle (without Doubles... and excluding players that start with the skill like Dark Elf Assassins).
The entire point of taking any skill is to be able to USE that skill... or at the very least to have the threat of using that skill.
To call using Shadowing in the way it was designed to be used an abuse of a known bug... especially a bug that is known not to occur most of the time is ridiculous.
Players that could Blitz! your ball carrier (and opposing ball carriers for that matter) are the exact players the skill was designed to be USED against.
If using the player on your team that is best built to man mark for man marking is abuse... then it stands that using a player with Dirty Player to Foul is also abuse... but or no bug.
Therefore, I submit, that the best solution (until the bug can be fixed) is to play on. A seldom used skill gets a very random and unreliable buff until it can be fixed.
1... Make the Coaches aware that a Shadowing bug sometimes exists.
2... Require coaches who have any Shadowing players to discuss this potential bug with opponents during set-up.
3... Let the coach trying to avoid the Shadowing player CHOOSE his actions knowing that his Blitz! could potentially be nullified. He will be making this choice KNOWING that he is better off trying to do this another way.
4... Discourage spamming of the Shadowing skill. Maybe a limit of 2 or 3 or 4 per team could be made a House Rule in the short term. (I'm not 100% sold on my own idea here... just a suggestion.)
Moreover, I submit, that would be abuse to demand that a player with Shadowing not be allowed to use that skill when the opportunity arises regardless of what action the opposing coach may be taking. |
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The_Provocateur
Joined: Sep 29, 2009
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Aug 23, 2013 - 23:36 |
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Are we sure this isn't just another version of the PainState cage dodge bug? It seems similar, both requiring a roll to get to the next square and being difficult to replicate for most people. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 24, 2013 - 00:22 |
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Ok, some of this is verging on the ridiculous, and has taught me one thing (keep it in house, or within a select few).
This thread is now locked. I will open a new one for study, then from that work out what to do. |
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