harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 23, 2013 - 14:46 |
 
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For those that don't know, there is a bug with shadowing, where if you shadow a blitzer, he cannot make his block at the end of the blitz.
I play a lot of pygmy games, and it's proving to be very difficult and uncomfortable.
So I think like Vicius did with vamps, we need to come up with a site wide policy on how to handle shadowing & blitzes.
I can think of 2 alternatives, if you can think of any more, or decide which is the better, please input.
1. (Very Simple) A shadowing player cannot shadow a blitzer.
2. (Not so simple) A shadowing player cannot shadow a blitzer. However if the blitzer can make a blitz on his intended target, by avoiding the shadower (even if this makes the path harder) he should take the avoiding path.
1 is very clean and simple, however a little unfair on shadowing players. 2 seems fairer to me, but leaves room for misunderstandings and messier situations.
Input please. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Aug 23, 2013 - 14:49 |
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3.) If a shadowing player successfully shadows a blitzer, the blitzer may not throw a block.
Same way old OFAB TDs were handled. |
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anisdrin
Joined: Apr 10, 2009
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Aug 23, 2013 - 14:52 |
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This is very difficult.
You cannot give a solution that cancels the shadowing skill. Why do you have to favor the blitzer over the shadower?
In my opinion the only solution is: Simulate the play in IRC with manual rolls and then decide what to do in the client.
Really difficult. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 14:58 |
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The problem with Synn's option 3 is it doesn't matter whether the shadow attempt was successful or not. By me accepting to shadow, negates the blitz (I think for just the next square, but it could be the whole turn, I'm not sure).
Doing everything in chat, isn't an option. Not everyone uses chat, it slows down the game completely, and is open to mistakes, time outs that maybe illegal may not be illegal, differences in interpretation. In the perfect world it would be the best option, and with 2 chat users, a simple situation and 2 coaches who understand the rules, the best option. It maybe this can be used as an alternative, if both coaches agree. However I think we need a fix of some sort. |
Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %23, %2013 - %15:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:04 |
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I think it needs to be checked if just the attempt to shadow cancels the block after the blitz move regardless of the number moves, if it just stops the block after the next move, or if you need to have a successful shadowing and be next to the blitzer at the time of the block.
Until that is known any solution found now can turn out to be extremely unfair. |
Last edited by f_alk on %b %23, %2013 - %15:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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SpacemanJames
Joined: Nov 01, 2011
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:04 |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:12 |
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I think 1 is cleanest.
That's a horrible bug though...how is my opponent, who doesn't read many forums, supposed to react when I tell him "Oh, you can't use your Gutter Runner to shadow my Flesh Golem blitzer, because it's against site rules"... |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Is this bug 100% of the time?
Also, does it stop you blitzing anyone or just the player who is shadowing you?
I'm not certain (can't watch the replay atm) but I believe in this game a few times I tried to shadow the leaping Slann blitzers and they were still able to blitz, which would suggest it does only stop you blitzing from the next square. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:18 |
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Hopefully I can get it stickied. Also with an extra line "Coaches are advised/Coaches should inform opposing coaches of the correct protocol when using shadowing before the match starts."
Obviously, this isn't something I want to do, but it can have a massive effect on the outcome of the match, and I can foresee the bug being used & skill being picked as a tactic. |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:22 |
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I dislike #1 honestly.
When there is a bug like this where there is no easy solution - then have to play it how the client has it implemented until it is fixed.
So, for now, shadowing is slightly more powerful. Of course if you know of the bug and your opponent does not - it is only sporting to inform your opponent at the start of the game if there are players with shadowing. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:22 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | 1. Is this bug 100% of the time?
2. Also, does it stop you blitzing anyone or just the player who is shadowing you?
3. I'm not certain (can't watch the replay atm) but I believe in this game a few times I tried to shadow the leaping Slann blitzers and they were still able to blitz, which would suggest it does only stop you blitzing from the next square. |
1. I believe so, but I've only recently been very aware of it.
2. Anyone.
3. I don't know the answer to this. However certainly - dodge out of tackle zone of shadower (shadow fails), dodging into tackle zone of blitz target. Will cause the bug. |
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baelnic
Joined: May 27, 2011
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:25 |
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It really hurts Pygmies with your solution #1 because often times I use this to stop 2D blocks on the ball carrier or simply to mark a blitzer that I hope will be forced to make multiple dodges. |
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Smeesh
Joined: Oct 29, 2005
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:26 |
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Hi
The only real clean way to handle that is to accept the bug (No Blizz at all) and fix it fast.
The mentioned options 1 and 2 are simply not practicable and will lead to a lot upseting.
Greetings
Smeesh |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:26 |
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| Azure wrote: | I dislike #1 honestly.
When there is a bug like this where there is no easy solution - then have to play it how the client has it implemented until it is fixed.
So, for now, shadowing is slightly more powerful. Of course if you know of the bug and your opponent does not - it is only sporting to inform your opponent at the start of the game if there are players with shadowing. |
I think it's more than slightly though, particularly if shadowing totally neuters the blitz attempt.
Example: Player A moves player in range of the TD. 1 of player B's has a chance of blitzing him. Player A covers this by marking player B's potential blitzer with a shadower, thus guaranteeing the score.
This, in my opinion is not right. |
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bigGuy
Joined: Sep 21, 2009
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Aug 23, 2013 - 15:30 |
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But not allowing to shadow is not right either. HM situation, shadowing player would force multiple dodges (including last one in TZ) and -2D blitz (assist from shadower) |
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