Poll |
What direction should the E.L.F. take? |
Go back to the way it used to be. |
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19% |
[ 13 ] |
Stay the course. Everything is just fine! |
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19% |
[ 13 ] |
Badges, you say... are they shiny? |
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28% |
[ 19 ] |
Will you listen to me for a change!!! |
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7% |
[ 5 ] |
The ELF is dead man. Just let it go already. |
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24% |
[ 16 ] |
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Total Votes : 66 |
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Jakob_olsen
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 24, 2009 - 23:54 |
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Perhaps a cherry-picker award.... ??? |
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pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 17:42 |
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What about throwing out the current scoring system and coming up with something new? Maybe the problem lies in the rewards offered for scoring and casualties... is a 2-1 win really worse than a 3-1 win?
What if we base points on results, like 10 points for a win, 5 for a tie, and 1 for a loss. Then offer a bonus point or points for playing as the weaker team or playing a higher-rated coach?
Base points more on the match up going in (and encourage certain behavior/choices) rather than the result coming out. In this way ELF coaches might be encouraged to think, "I'll challenge Synn's Goats cause if I pull off a win I'll earn x-points" instead of "I'll challenge this brand-new guy's vampires cause I could possibly win 5-0 and earn a pile of points."
How could a system like this be put into practice... AND make it fun/challenging to try to win the league? |
_________________ "Don't expect mercy."
-Woodstock |
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Tathar
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 18:40 |
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pizzamogul wrote: | What about throwing out the current scoring system and coming up with something new? Maybe the problem lies in the rewards offered for scoring and casualties... is a 2-1 win really worse than a 3-1 win?
What if we base points on results, like 10 points for a win, 5 for a tie, and 1 for a loss. Then offer a bonus point or points for playing as the weaker team or playing a higher-rated coach?
Base points more on the match up going in (and encourage certain behavior/choices) rather than the result coming out. In this way ELF coaches might be encouraged to think, "I'll challenge Synn's Goats cause if I pull off a win I'll earn x-points" instead of "I'll challenge this brand-new guy's vampires cause I could possibly win 5-0 and earn a pile of points."
How could a system like this be put into practice... AND make it fun/challenging to try to win the league? |
How about something like:
10 points for a win, 5 for a tie, and 1 for a loss
Bonus points:
TS disadvantage / 4
CR - (Base CR [i.e.150?]) / 6
Figures can be changed to fit weightings you want. Divisors can be changed to nth roots if that is a more appropriate scale.
Edit: You get 1/4 bonus points if you lose, 1/2 bonus points is you draw and full bonus points if you win.
Edit2: Here is a table of example scores.
Edit3: Code not working, I'll have to figure something else out. |
Last edited by Tathar on %b %25, %2009 - %22:%Feb; edited 20 times in total |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 18:41 |
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pizzamogul wrote: | Base points more on the match up going in (and encourage certain behavior/choices) rather than the result coming out. In this way ELF coaches might be encouraged to think, "I'll challenge Synn's Goats cause if I pull off a win I'll earn x-points" instead of "I'll challenge this brand-new guy's vampires cause I could possibly win 5-0 and earn a pile of points." |
I like this idea. |
_________________ Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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Jakob_olsen
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 19:03 |
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I like it. It would make us aim for winning 10 hard matches instead of winning 10 easy ones. |
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Jakob_olsen
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 19:13 |
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We could actually just inherit the system from the fumbbl championship, where a difficulty is calculated from the CR and TS, and then multiplied on the points from the match.
The championship calculates the difficulty as:
Difficulty = 0.6 * (Total Opponent Strength / Total Your Strength) + 0.4 * (Total Opponent CR / Total Your CR). |
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Tathar
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 22:14 |
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Tathar wrote: | pizzamogul wrote: | What about throwing out the current scoring system and coming up with something new? Maybe the problem lies in the rewards offered for scoring and casualties... is a 2-1 win really worse than a 3-1 win?
What if we base points on results, like 10 points for a win, 5 for a tie, and 1 for a loss. Then offer a bonus point or points for playing as the weaker team or playing a higher-rated coach?
Base points more on the match up going in (and encourage certain behavior/choices) rather than the result coming out. In this way ELF coaches might be encouraged to think, "I'll challenge Synn's Goats cause if I pull off a win I'll earn x-points" instead of "I'll challenge this brand-new guy's vampires cause I could possibly win 5-0 and earn a pile of points."
How could a system like this be put into practice... AND make it fun/challenging to try to win the league? |
How about something like:
10 points for a win, 5 for a tie, and 1 for a loss
Bonus points:
TS disadvantage / 4
CR - (Base CR [i.e.150?]) / 6
Figures can be changed to fit weightings you want. Divisors can be changed to nth roots if that is a more appropriate scale.
Edit: You get 1/4 bonus points if you lose, 1/2 bonus points is you draw and full bonus points if you win.
Edit2: Here is a table of example scores.
Edit3: Code not working, I'll have to figure something else out. |
This code box kinda works. Hope it's clear enough.
CR = Opponent CR
TS = TS Disadvantage
Edit: Opps got the figures wrong forgot to $ some cells in excel. Figures now shown below have been revised.
Code: |
CR TS W D L
150 5 11.25 5.63 1.31
150 10 12.50 6.25 1.63
150 20 15.00 7.50 2.25
150 40 20.00 10.00 3.50
160 5 12.92 6.46 1.73
160 10 14.17 7.08 2.04
160 20 16.67 8.33 2.67
160 40 21.67 10.83 3.92
170 5 14.58 7.29 2.15
170 10 15.83 7.92 2.46
170 20 18.33 9.17 3.08
170 40 23.33 11.67 4.33
180 5 16.25 8.13 2.56
180 10 17.50 8.75 2.88
180 20 20.00 10.00 3.50
180 40 25.00 12.50 4.75
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Tathar
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
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  Posted:
Feb 25, 2009 - 22:54 |
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The formula is pretty simple to stick into an excel spreadsheet and muck around with the mechanics of the scoring system. The initial parameters I proposed above didn't seem to provide nice enough incentives for harder matches so I've tinkered with it to produce the figures below, which I feel are a little closer to what's needed.
Formulas in excel were like:
=ROUND("W points"+((("TS")+(("CR"-150)/2))*1.00),2)
=ROUND("D points"+((("TS")+(("CR"-150)/2))*0.80),2)
=ROUND("L points"+((("TS")+(("CR"-150)/2))*0.50),2)
My reasoning for the factors were that:
- TS is more significant than CR.
- Greater bonuses should be awarded for winning rathar than drawing and drawing rather than losing.
Code: |
CR TS W D L
150 5 15.00 9.00 3.50
150 10 20.00 9.00 6.00
150 20 30.00 13.00 11.00
150 40 50.00 21.00 21.00
160 5 20.00 11.00 6.00
160 10 25.00 13.00 8.50
160 20 35.00 17.00 13.50
160 40 55.00 25.00 23.50
170 5 25.00 15.00 8.50
170 10 30.00 17.00 11.00
170 20 40.00 21.00 16.00
170 40 60.00 29.00 26.00
180 5 30.00 19.00 11.00
180 10 35.00 21.00 13.50
180 20 45.00 25.00 18.50
180 40 65.00 33.00 28.50
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This kind of system seems simple enough and aligned with pizzamogul's idea. The parameters, "base" TS/CR levels, etc can all be customised so that the system properly incentivises E.L.F. match ups and allows some flexibility. |
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Jakob_olsen
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 26, 2009 - 00:22 |
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I like the first table the best... It seems balanced and fair.
... but i completely fail to see the point of awarding bonus for loosing ?? In the proposed system, loosing big-time to a much better team with a much better coach is awarded 28.5 points.... Why ??? Anyone can do that! |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 26, 2009 - 00:36 |
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Jakob_olsen wrote: | I like the first table the best... It seems balanced and fair.
... but i completely fail to see the point of awarding bonus for loosing ?? In the proposed system, loosing big-time to a much better team with a much better coach is awarded 28.5 points.... Why ??? Anyone can do that! |
I like it. Kamikaze spirit.
Encourage people play and complete the cycle. Not only to play when they think they can win. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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babelfilm
Joined: Dec 15, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 27, 2009 - 12:53 |
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Interesting concept.
A competition of who can challenge the team that out class yours the most....
Not sure if that is for me. But we will see... |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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  Posted:
Feb 27, 2009 - 13:51 |
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babelfilm wrote: | Interesting concept.
A competition of who can challenge the team that out class yours the most....
Not sure if that is for me. But we will see... |
I'm happy with points been awarded for "attendence", but I don't feel anymore points should be awarded for playing and losing to a stronger team / opponent than a weak team / opponent.
I think a modifier would be better than straight points. So something like:
CR 150 < 155 & -4/+4 TS = x1
CR 155 < 160 & -4/+4 TS = x1.5
CR 155 < 160 & +5/+9 TS = x2
Obviously the modifier would be applied to all points gained (win bonus, TDs, Cas, etc)
You get the idea (not going to draw our an entire example table) |
_________________ Better lucky than good |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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  Posted:
Feb 27, 2009 - 14:39 |
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Pizzamogul if you need someone to modify the java team scraper to implement these changes (once decided), let me know. I think i'm the last person to have done that for you. |
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MadTias
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
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  Posted:
Feb 27, 2009 - 17:08 |
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One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is that every time we change the scoring system, we destroy the possibility to compare scores with previous seasons. As a statistics fan, I think that's sad (no "all-time-high" lists).
No system will ever be perfect. The current baseline system does what is needed (disincentive to picking) adequately. I say keep it, move on and let's play! |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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  Posted:
Feb 27, 2009 - 18:00 |
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I would rather just go with what MadTias just said to be honest. |
_________________ Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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