Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 01:44 |
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tussock wrote: | Sure Hands could negate Strip Ball on an agility check (probably +1), like Safe Throw negates intercepts, so it's not a perfect counter but usually works. |
+1 |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 01:47 |
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@Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team. I guess it would at least give them some control over which direction it goes.
Wreckage wrote: | Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player. |
I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters .. |
_________________ "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 01:53 |
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fidius wrote: | The idea would be reasonable but for the existence of Wardancers. |
You make a fair point, although one thing I like about my suggestion is the model of counters that have counters that have counters ..
It is basically equivalent to saying that Frenzy counters Sure Hands (on the second block). So, Sure Hands counters Strip Ball, but then Frenzy counters Sure Hands. BUT, then a ballcarrier could take Fend or Stand Firm to counter the Frenzy. BUT the blitzer could take Juggernaut to counter those skills and still get the strip.
So, it's a counter-chain of 5 skills, including a couple that are currently not very widely-used. |
_________________ "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 02:07 |
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I could be convinced of Strip Ball + Mighty Blow countering Sure Hands.
Boom. |
_________________ Using derivative humor since 2005.
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 07:55 |
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JellyBelly wrote: | @Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team. |
Well, if you follow my whole argument, it wasn't about giving bash teams an easier time at all.
JellyBelly wrote: |
Wreckage wrote: | Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player. |
I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters ..
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That also just means you're just doing really poorly in getting to the ball. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 12:46 |
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And then we'll see 8 stand firm dorfs caging around the ball carrier... |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 12:56 |
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Uedder wrote: | And then we'll see 8 stand firm dorfs caging around the ball carrier... |
Fine. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 14:23 |
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Wreckage wrote: | JellyBelly wrote: | @Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team. |
Well, if you follow my whole argument, it wasn't about giving bash teams an easier time at all. |
Ok, sorry Wreckage, I guess I must have misunderstood your argument then. I thought we were comparing this to just having Sure Hands not work at all against Strip Ball?
Wreckage wrote: |
JellyBelly wrote: |
Wreckage wrote: | Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player. |
I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters ..
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That also just means you're just doing really poorly in getting to the ball. |
Well, in my experience of playing elves against good bash coaches, it can be very difficult to prevent them getting to the ball with their SH carrier on offense, unless you luck out and get a blitz (especially if they have Kick-off Return and start their cage deep).
Btw, just want to say I like tussock's idea as well, of having an agility roll to see if Sure Hands works vs SB. Make it so it doesn't work every time. |
_________________ "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 18:16 |
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JackassRampant wrote: | Pro is a good late skill for a TPOMBer. Especially with Jump Up. | also great for dauntless |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 19:12 |
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JellyBelly wrote: | Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn.
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How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked. |
_________________ “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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cakalis
Joined: Dec 10, 2007
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 19:57 |
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garyt1 wrote: | JellyBelly wrote: | Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn.
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How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked. | If sb is combined with frenzy then you have 2 sb on one blitz. I think that is the idea. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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  Posted:
Nov 06, 2016 - 19:59 |
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cakalis wrote: | garyt1 wrote: | JellyBelly wrote: | Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn.
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How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked. | If sb is combined with frenzy then you have 2 sb on one blitz. I think that is the idea. | and, if you have good position on defense, chain pushes can net you more blocks. |
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