mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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 Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 02:51 |
 
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| Uedder wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | Again, I ask since nobody answered.
1. Do CRP games retroactively count for seasons?
2. Do we get a 0 Season to accrue cash etc to rebuy our teams for Season 1 or are we forced to rebuy our teams prior to playing even one season in the theorized B and R? |
Well, that's one of the calls that need to be made. Who are you asking this to? What would you like it to be?
If I were to rule on this (and gladly I'm not) the answers would be:
1) NO
2) Season 0 for CRP teams. I'd probably get everyone's bank to 200k tho.
EDIT: MAX 200k bank ofc. |
The peanut gallery and what I want is basically as you stated. Because it'll allow some easing in for existing teams without immediate and drastic consequences. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 02:59 |
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| kummo wrote: | | About that Balle's tier-league. What happens when one team doesn't play in a looooong time. Does thah team drop automatically, does he stay, does it depend on win% and is it win% of the current (recently finished 1) season or win% of all seasons? |
The idea is that each team is locked in their own virtual season. So if exemplified, say the last game you played was Game 4 in Div 4, your next will be Game 5 in Div 4, regardless of when you play it.
You need to hit a certain winrate threshold each season to promote/or stay or otherwise get relegated. The target winrate for each division is a fixed number (increasing as you promote upwards through the tiers/divisions), so it only comes down to how your team performs, and not everyone else's.
If that makes sense. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 04:26 |
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| Uedder wrote: | | Balle2000 wrote: |
Sidenote: 20-30 games sounds like you would eliminate attrition all together? But I haven't done the math.
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I think 20k is a low estimate for each game income. 25k is probably a good median number. 30k is what a good elf team would get in average. 35k for a very good bash team. Bash teams would most likely get more on average, because the number of casualties is usually higher than the number of touchdowns in a game.
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I wouldnt be so sure. I created a little 1000 Game Monte Carlo where I plugged in the distributions of TDs and CAS earned by Coca Loca, an AG5 monstrosity with a POMBer elf and the average K per game?
About 15-16k Per Game. I could have done straight averages of CAS and TDs per game and cheggit, 8.77k ((200/114)*5) in TDs and 7.32k ((167/114)*5), a breath over 16k per game at 16.09k
Using average again, even my most gaudy team American Ratiators II, with 2.26 TDs per game gets 19k per game.
And I admit, I'm not a good coach, I'm probably average.
BTW, I'm not counting the standard 10k for just playing a game in those numbers. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Dec 03, 2016 - 05:03 |
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| koadah wrote: |
To be honest I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm for this new rule set. All I wanted was a little CPOMB nerf.  |
You had a CPOMB nerf, in the future you will have to face CMB only. Piling On was the worst offender of the stack, and now it's gone.
| koadah wrote: |
I was intending to play a little Box. But not if it is going to be more trouble than it's worth.
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Why should you not play? Personally I find the Box better than some time ago. |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 06:34 |
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Yolo! |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 07:06 |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 09:27 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
To be honest I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm for this new rule set. All I wanted was a little CPOMB nerf. |
You had a CPOMB nerf, in the future you will have to face CMB only. Piling On was the worst offender of the stack, and now it's gone. |
Just whining really. 
I was never a fan of getting rid of it completely. N ow they've also reduced the bash power of orcs, dwarves, undead, humans, zons etc, etc.
They've gone over the top. That's why we're stuck thinking we need seasons.
| MattDakka wrote: |
| koadah wrote: |
I was intending to play a little Box. But not if it is going to be more trouble than it's worth.
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Why should you not play? Personally I find the Box better than some time ago. |
Really, I'm expecting better flexibility in [L]eague.
My take on blood bowl is thay you try the rules. Then you tweak them to suit your league.
It's really just a moan about staying official. we'll play an ill fitting set rules for five years (or whatever). Until they get around to giving us another ill fitting set.
I am assuming that [L]eague will keep the old options and add some new ones. Hopefully the option of seasons not weighed down by the demands of R & B, tweaking seasonal cash bonuses, no seasons at all, maybe even wizards.
I get it. Leagues are smaller. Fewer people to please. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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@Uedder: Remember when rebuying teams that you don't have to rebuy your FF, so at that TV level each team would likely be 80-120TV higher |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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Dec 03, 2016 - 10:26 |
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@Balle2000: Currently I am on page 32 and I very like your idea of tiered seasons.
One remark: Why not let coach decide about promotion/stay/delegation? No need to enforce anything by winrate. In case of promotion, the team can grow further freeely.
Edit (I catched up to this page): I see most of you do the math with the number of games as the only parameter. Do not forget the re-buy value. Considering Balle2000's concept maybe a fixed number of games (12?) would be plain and the tiers should differ by base re-buy value only.
With 250k difference that would make 5 tiers from 1000k to 2000k and we do not need more. |
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Last edited by SzieberthAdam on %b %03, %2016 - %11:%Dec; edited 2 times in total |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 10:59 |
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Well, removing PO is a DP buff. Time to start making undead teams again  |
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Cyrus-Havoc
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 13:22 |
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Not read all of this thread.
However what I find strange is that this is primarily designed for TT players & usually everything is done to keep things simple. Yet this idea appears rather complicated. So why bother?
I could happily do without it. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 13:32 |
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| koadah wrote: | I was never a fan of getting rid of it completely. Now they've also reduced the bash power of orcs, dwarves, undead, humans, zons etc, etc.
They've gone over the top. That's why we're stuck thinking we need seasons. |
On the one side you got the vein of thinking that "bash will now be totally gone, so we need something new to control teams".
First of all, I don't believe high TV teams is as big a problem in and off itself. It seems it is taken for granted that this is somehow a "huge problem". I think that's slightly exaggerated.
Also, there will still be plenty of bash around, but we've lost the broken game dynamic, which means slightly less attrition altogether, but on the flipside it will put the focus back on positioning, like it was in LRB4.
And Multiple Block  (half jokingly)
As for seasons, I think many are looking at it from another angle: can we find a good implementation of BB16 Seasons in an open division environment?
@SzieberthAdam Thanks for the feedback. I'll have a little think and get back to you! |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 14:20 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
BTW, I'm not counting the standard 10k for just playing a game in those numbers. |
You Should
It would take OL right in the 25k median earnings.
Are you still not counting games played in the total?
The numbers seem a bit off to me...
For example the first line (TD+CAS per game) 1
has an interval of 20.
When it should be 60. Because 4 games x 15(earning per game) = 60.
The base calculation is right, but the interval is off. It only counts extra earnings from TD+CAS and not from extra games played. So it should be raised by 40 in every case. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 16:04 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | koadah wrote: | I was never a fan of getting rid of it completely. Now they've also reduced the bash power of orcs, dwarves, undead, humans, zons etc, etc.
They've gone over the top. That's why we're stuck thinking we need seasons. |
On the one side you got the vein of thinking that "bash will now be totally gone, so we need something new to control teams".
First of all, I don't believe high TV teams is as big a problem in and off itself. It seems it is taken for granted that this is somehow a "huge problem". I think that's slightly exaggerated. |
I'm not 100% sure on the context you are discussing, but clearly seasons is a way to regulate the TVs which are achievable, so whether or not anyone thinks high TV is a problem, seasons is a mechanism, which when used as described in the rules, makes high TV teams much less likely. Unless you make the seasons 'long' in which case there is very little point to them, other than as the attrition mechanism, but again, long enough seasons and that factor *still* doesn't really work.
| Balle2000 wrote: | | Also, there will still be plenty of bash around, but we've lost the broken game dynamic, which means slightly less attrition altogether, but on the flipside it will put the focus back on positioning, like it was in LRB4. |
Ugh... I really hate this argument and I think it's complete bunk. PO was not some magic 'I win' button, and if you think that PO players don't have to play with proper position then I suggest you've never really played PO yourself, or played against anyone who understood how to punish it when used willy nilly. PO may have contributed to more run away games where positioning didn't matter due to removal, but again, that's a different point than just saying that 'no PO means we have to play positionally again'.
The positional game in lrb4 was mostly about dirty players anyway wasn't it?
Koadah is also right that the way to reduce CPOMB did not lie in removing a useful skill from every single team in the game. But that is certainly an argument for a different thread.
| Balle2000 wrote: | As for seasons, I think many are looking at it from another angle: can we find a good implementation of BB16 Seasons in an open division environment?
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Here we agree, we can and should be looking for reasonable implementations (including redoing the divisions completely) while still leaving 'do nothing' as a valid option. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2016 - 17:44 |
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Wow, just spent almost an hour getting back up to speed with this rapidly-ballooning thread ... 
| PainState wrote: | @Balle2000
Holy cow man, I love your passion to make a new div. I really do. Your idea has merits and I think using seasons, a Tier approach similar to Euro football could work. I think that idea would work great if we brought back faction.
Tier the Faction Div out, only coaches who are serious about it would join. Throw in some tournaments, fluff and prizes for these new faction teams would attract a lot of the serious Tournament only coaches. It would also attract the League coaches who like a structured, goal orientated environment, that has Open play instead of scheduled match play.
Now the details you laid out and my ideas, well, no need to go into that. It is an idea that needs to be fleshed out but it has merits.
Do not make a new div or split up R/B. Just reinvent Faction and bring it back.
Leave Box/Ranked as they are with no season and all the other optional BB2016 rules and let see how it falls out. |
Even though I suggested bringing back Faction about 10 pages ago, I'm going off the idea of a rigidly-tiered new seasonal division. Adding a new division would increase fragmentation of the player base already, but having several sub-divisions within that would be even worse. It would be practically impossible for anyone playing in the NA evenings to get a game in such a division (I believe that's one of the reasons Faction died off in the first place).
I have to say though, that I am quite excited at some of the proposed ideas around BB2016 seasons. In particular, I think it would be a great opportunity to re-invent the structure of the competitive divisions and hopefully consolidate the player base. I liked the idea that Uedder proposed before, about allowing teams to 'toggle' between 'in-season' (more serious, with scheduler) and 'off-season' (more casual, choose who you play), but within the same division. |
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