fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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 Posted:
May 23, 2017 - 23:10 |
 
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | I agree a lot of the options are silly or pointless. It's not how I'd have done it. But I like what they're trying to do, at least. |
What they're trying to do is sell more figs.
Argue the Call requires a Coach fig
(In)famous Coaching Staff requires one of 6 new figs (collect all 6!)
New Goblin players = new figs
New Star Players = new figs
Rostering Stars = encourages purchase of new figs
Stadium Upgrades = new props
Open Petty Cash = facilitates use and purchase of figs
Seen through this lens it's pretty clear where DZ books will focus going forward. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 24, 2017 - 00:04 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 24, 2017 - 10:29 |
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| koadah wrote: | | huff wrote: | +1 to what Garion is saying. Should have definitely 'cleaned up' everything that was in place before/same time as adding all the new stuff. i.e. TGs, 1 stunty team left with loner BGs, Pact BGs still lacking normal mutation access, ect.
@ Koadah- what you think about the other (in)famous coaching staff in the new White Dwarf? |
Dunno. Haven't seen it.
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Which white dwarf is this? and which coach? i cant see it? |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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May 24, 2017 - 11:53 |
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| Garion wrote: | | mister__joshua wrote: | | licker wrote: | I feel that the stupification of BB has begun (or continued for those who felt that way about CRP) with this rule set.
Not impressed, nor pleased with any of it. My feeling is the developers spent too much time playing Hearth Stone and the idiocy contained in that game has rubbed off on them. |
I don't get this point of view at all, honestly. Blood Bowl has always been stupid, or always should have been. That's half the point. Some people take their Blood Bowl wholly too seriously  |
While you are right MJ people do take the game too seriously at times, nevertheless this view point does bug me and I see it a lot on BB forums.
There is no reason rule design cannot cater for the more "hardcore" or "serious players" and add "fun" to proceedings. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The (In)famous Coaching Staff rules are just pointless for half of them (chaos, Skaven and Elf) they wont be taken by anyone with sense. Then the other half are fine albeit clunky and not needed.
The crap wizard will be taken, the goblin one will once maxed out on bribes already, and the Norse/Zon cheerleader thing may pop up from time to time.
The main thing that bugs me with these is they should have been special cards, put in to appropriately priced decks, rather than over loading the inducement selection. Its pretty clunky really. The rules seem over written and not very elegant. I guess the correct words would be its not very streamlined, and the game seems to be getting less streamlined.
I think licker has a point really. Rather than focus on fixing some of the flaws in the previous edition they've just added in a bunch of stuff that mostly pointless.
I guess the main positive is the core game is fine and unchanged |
Garion, I think you set your expectations too high. You expect improvements to the game that can only come from a hand full of people in the world because they are the ones with that expertise. (I would name you as one of those people by the way.)
GW does not have a good track record of listening to the right people in the gaming community and more than once they have nearly destroyed the company. (Warhammer Fantasy, LoTR games, Mordheim, shelving Blood Bowl for so long.......)
If they give me new figures and don't screw up the game I love I consider it a huge win just because of what they have screwed up in the past.
So by doing a little work to bring new blood into the game through marketing and fun concept without tipping the scales on play-ability I consider this an improvement over their previous track record.
In my opinion, all of your recommendations are spot on but unfortunately, I am not a GW executive so I can't hire you as a consultant to set things straight.  Could you do me a favor and send them your resume and suggestions?  |
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huff
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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May 24, 2017 - 12:40 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Which white dwarf is this? and which coach? i cant see it? |
I'm just making a play on the 'rules just trickling in' like in the 3rd Ed days where the "rules" just kept coming in via White Dwarfs, compendiums ect. A bit of an exaggeration from where we stand now, just after years (10?) of constant, we get what at least feels like a bunch of change over the course of 6 months. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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May 24, 2017 - 12:44 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | (assuming it's being used in the old school, inducement way). |
Lol, how quaint! Get ready for a worse inducement phase than BB2 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 24, 2017 - 13:10 |
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| huff wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | Which white dwarf is this? and which coach? i cant see it? |
I'm just making a play on the 'rules just trickling in' like in the 3rd Ed days where the "rules" just kept coming in via White Dwarfs, compendiums ect. A bit of an exaggeration from where we stand now, just after years (10?) of constant, we get what at least feels like a bunch of change over the course of 6 months. |
oh right. Well, thankfully one thing they are doing well is separating Optional Rules from the Core Rules. Everything in White Dwarf so far has been labelled as Optional so they can stick any crap they like in there.
| Jimmyfantastic wrote: |
Lol, how quaint! Get ready for a worse inducement phase than BB2 Sad
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I don't think its worse just yet. Stadium upgrades are optional in BB2016 edition so we probs wont have them here, and we don't have a proper wizard yet, so its just crp still with the silly INfamous coaches currently.
However further down the line when Skaven and Elves can induce 'proper wizard' along with 'crap wizard' that is potentially 3 fireballs a game. Sure 2 of them scatter 1 d3, but that's more than good enough to mess up a cage. At that point I think you will be spot on jimmy. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 24, 2017 - 13:19 |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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May 24, 2017 - 13:45 |
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I really like these. Priced at 50-80k they are all affordable and give small buffs.
It is a shame a 1 for the Chaos Shaman is KO rather than no effect but I could still see using him; especially on Pact/Renegades.
Given you can hire a Merc Linerat for 80k the Skaven Engineer may be a little to expensive to see use but if you wanted to win a finals match taking a chance on bringing back your superstar Gutter runner could be worth it.
| mister__joshua wrote: |
Ability: "Take This! Ooops..." Once per half Horatio can cast a fireball. |
Going to have to re-read that again tonight I thought it was once per game!
| mister__joshua wrote: |
Sent off if Argue the Call fails (not sure if this means roll of 1 or anything other than 5+) |
I agree this is a little unclear but it does say sent off with the head coach which only happens on a 1 so I think it is 1 =Coach and Goblin PA Sent off;2-4 No-effect;5+ Player goes to Reserves. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 24, 2017 - 14:48 |
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| koadah wrote: | But we do have a wizard now. Do you think they'll add another?
If yes. Why? |
Yes current new wizard will be coming when Kalimar implements it. Its just 80k, for a fireball, that D8 scatters d3 spaces. 1 Use each half. He's actually too good imo, 80k for 2 slightly inaccurate fireballs is huge.
The new BBRC people have said on TFF this is not the only wizard that full wizard rules will be in a later book. They did not specifically state the next book, though I suspect it will be. But he is definitely coming in some form in one of the forth coming DZ books. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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May 24, 2017 - 16:41 |
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I think the issue going on with a lot of coaches is that is seems Blood Bowl has reverted to the Second Edition/ 3rd Edition of Blood bowl when it comes to the anarchy and chaos, yet trying to keep the game play on the "board" the same as CRP. They are not introducing new rules that change the nuts and bolts of how the game is played.
Back in the day coaches celebrated the upgrade of Blood Bowl as they moved away from the special play cards and came out with the modern incarnation of Blood Bowl, ending with CRP and in some coaches minds a game based on players skill, no more random insanity happening every other turn. Trust me 2ED Blood Bowl was 70% Insanity and 30% skill.
So, "we" are now discombobulated as a player base on FUMBBL. Some coaches like the new changes that introduce a large variable of insanity and some coaches who are up in arms that the game has reverted back into anarchy. Really? You could get a coach who shoots fireballs twice a game, buy a wizard when it is reintroduced and get 4 BB2016 cards that have in that one deck 3 cards that are in essence wizard spells? Nope, to much stupidity for me to handle, Iam checking out.
Then you throw in the stadium upgrade options and the in game effects some of them have, albeit they are subtle but we are playing a dice game and they could make a huge impact in a match now and then.
IMO the benefit of this new anarchy that is being introduced is that it gives the underdog a better chance at winning. The #1 rule, in my book at least, is that if you are a massive underdog you need to induce everything you can that will introduce anarchy and random things that the favorite can not game plan for. Hiring 2 stars and some babes and stuff the favorite can handle that. The favorite though sees you have 4 cards, a wizard a coach wizard, well that is a lot of chaos and things he cannot game plan for. It creates uncertainty and randomness that is purely based on dice rolling or luck.
I will admit part of me likes the changes back to the old days of chaos, I started playing Blood Bowl in 1st edition, so, this is in my wheel house of when I played a lot of TT BB back in 1st ,2ed and 3Rd edition of Blood Bowl.
I will also admit that some coaches hate these changes because they are younger than me and never experienced Blood Bowl when it was like that and a more polished game with little random chaos that was introduced in LRB4+ and beyond, the theory being they moved the game to a more coach skill based game instead of random chaos and roll a fist full of dice and hope it comes up good.
Garion stated he did not like the rules because they where not streamlined and seem clunky. I will agree the rules are getting clunky again in BB2016. that is what happens when you start piling on all these Core/Optional rules that just add more and more random stuff into the game. Are these rules improving the game? I think that all depends on your P.O.V. |
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DrDeath
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
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May 24, 2017 - 17:12 |
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I agree most of these changes are a bit fluffy and pointless. But it's quite wrong to think 'Oh well this is just one more rules update, it'll balance out and we'll all get used to it'. One massive change is the new inducement system. The whole purpose of inducements should be to give the underdog a chance. But in the new ruleset it often does exactly the opposite - experienced, richer teams can gain an even bigger advantage by dipping into their treasury and buying extra things, unopposed. The other day I was playing a min/max Amazon team in Blackbox, they had played many games and had cash, mine had played a couple and had no cash for inducements, we didn't even have any tackle yet. They effectively got a free chainsaw. Not a fun experience, in fact the kind of rubbish game which is likely to put newcomers off. Have heard other examples, even one coach buying Morg unopposed when already the richer side. And coaches are even encouraged to unbalance games because of the 'spend it or lose it' rules for treasury now.
When the bigger, richer side have effectively tried to buy the game before you've even put players on the pitch, that doesn't really make for a fun 90 minutes does it? Problem is it isn't even balanced between teams - bash sides can save cash far more easily (as they don't have to replace many players), so will often be able to screw over young or low av sides. It sucks really, especially in an environment like FUMMBL where you can get big mismatches, and if you like the Av7 sides. Maybe it was designed more for League play, but even there I think bash sides will start to get this advantage after a few games. I agree with Licker - the rules have been poorly thought out and I'd be very surprised if they were playtested properly (by anyone with half a brain anyway). |
Last edited by DrDeath on May 24, 2017; edited 3 times in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
May 24, 2017 - 17:13 |
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| PainState wrote: |
Garion stated he did not like the rules because they where not streamlined and seem clunky. I will agree the rules are getting clunky again in BB2016. that is what happens when you start piling on all these Core/Optional rules that just add more and more random stuff into the game. Are these rules improving the game? I think that all depends on your P.O.V. |
Its all good and well saying that but I can say with some certainty that it is the level of strategic depth that Blood Bowl has that keeps people playing for so long and why games like dreadball are utter crap, you might as well flip a coin to decide who wins that game.
If the game goes too far down the rabbit hole of silly rules and the games are all decided by silly 1 off events people will get bored of it quickly and stop playing. I'm all for some silliness, I'm a big advocate of Zaap returning and similarly why I am fine with Swoop/doom diver, as they add fun options that don't effect the main game, because you have better TV value options at your disposal.
2x fireball a game for 80k on the other hand is potentially game breaking, especially when you as the TV leader can just use 80k to get your 2x fireball every other game. Also think about this when wizard is brought back too. 3x fireballs does not sound like a fun game to me. There isn't much point in playing if your opposition is an elf or rat.
Most of the rules haven't impacted the main game strategy so far, so they are fine. This is the first one that could be seriously game spoiling. I just hope the INfamous coaches are made Optional quickly.
Too much nonsense like this and the competitive people will leave the game and it would die. |
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huff
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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May 24, 2017 - 20:48 |
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Haratio is a game changer, he looks quite good on paper and even borderline broken in terms of the game we know now, which BTW is quickly changing for better or for worse depending on perspective. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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It's worth noting if people haven't considered it that I mentioned these new coaches work like Star Players, so if both coaches pick him then neither get him. If it turned out that he was seriously overpowered you'd just see the underdog take him every game, and the overdog move to nullify it if they could afford |
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