| Poll |
| Chameoleon Skinks??? |
| Love them |
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44% |
[ 35 ] |
| Trash |
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24% |
[ 19 ] |
| SKINKS ONLY FOOL! |
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31% |
[ 25 ] |
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| Total Votes : 79 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
May 25, 2020 - 22:37 |
 
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And actually it comes from Sauros, which is an Ancient Greek word (plural Sauroi).
Saurus is the latinization of Sauros. |
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deeyo
Joined: Jan 03, 2020
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May 26, 2020 - 07:40 |
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There is a surprise factor, people don't know about that positional or forget about it, since it is considerably new or uncommon. Every other game it is able to tag a player with pass block or have some chance to intercept.
Shadowing comes into the picture more often if you play against agile teams since they sometimes prefer to dodge away instead of bashing away. |
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Alien_the_Alien
Joined: Apr 22, 2020
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May 26, 2020 - 11:37 |
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Yeah "saurii" would be the correct plural for singular "saurius*" in latin.
Funnily enough, the word "saurus" exists in classical latin. It's from greek sauros and it's a kind of fish with bright green/blue colours. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 26, 2020 - 12:43 |
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I don't think it's classical Latin.
Latin already had a word for Lizard, Lacerta.
On my Latin dictionary I can find Saura, ae, but not Saurus.
I guess Saurus is a late latinization of Greek Sauros. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 26, 2020 - 13:04 |
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this discussion has taken place so many times, it really doesn't matter how you pronounce the plural of Saurus. Lets get the thread back on track and discuss how to get the most out of Chameoleon Skinks, as they are somewhat a suboptimal selection.
| garyt1 wrote: |
But if that Shadowing, or even fear of Shadowing, is causing enough upset to your opponents maybe it is worth it.
Diving Tackle is definitely a good shout if you are going to have a Shadower. |
I both agree and disagree with this. Sadly the order that Shadowing and Diving Tackle occurs makes the combo a lot less desirable as it would immediately appear to be.
However due to A only access DT is still a good skill and they don't have much in the way of choices.
Personally I think I would take SS first, as it has a good synergy with Shadowing, and also if someone hits your Chameleon Skink to stop the potential PB - SS lets you get closer to your target for interceptions if they aren't knocked down. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 13:28 |
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Yes, let's get back on topic track.
Personally I don't find Chameleon Skinks worth in perpetual MM league play, which tend to be bash-oriented.
A normal Skink is way better in terms of efficiency (I don't talk about fun because it's subjective): there is a huge difference between MA 7 and MA 8: with MA 8 there is a good starting statline to develop a ball carrier/one turner.
While Shadowing can sometimes be annoying (although a S2 player is generally easy to block/blitz away) Pass Block is rarely used (unless you play in a private league vs many passing teams, but even then I would think twice before hiring a Chameleon).
Chameleon Skinks would be more useful with either default Side Step or Diving Tackle instead of Pass Block (I think Side Step, Shadowing: default Diving Tackle might be stronger than Side Step).
From the fluff point of view, they are not very representative of the Skink Chameleon I've read about in the WHFB Lizarmen Army Book, Oxyotl from Pahuax (the only city where Chameleon Skinks are spawned), wielding a blowpipe spitting darts with tarantula poison.
GW could have added 0-1 Chameleon Skink to the Lizardmen roster (0-1 to represent their rarity and for balance purpose as well) with Blowpipe Secret Weapon.
Now, that would have added fun and fluff to the roster in my opinion, but as Chameleon Skinks are portrayed, they are not fun nor fluffy. |
Last edited by MattDakka on May 26, 2020; edited 1 time in total |
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Lex_Rocket
Joined: Oct 27, 2018
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 16:25 |
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After poking in my statistics a little more its seems like I've mostly enjoyed them as throwaway players.
That said, basic skinks fit the role just as well/are cheaper/ better at getting away/can actually develop into good players.
I have to admit, the Chameleon skink would be real cool if it were a 0-1 secret weapon with a blowpipe, it'd also be very easy to do with a slight variation on Stab. They would probably still be bad, but they'd definitely be more fun. |
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Alien_the_Alien
Joined: Apr 22, 2020
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 16:57 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | I don't think it's classical Latin.
Latin already had a word for Lizard, Lacerta.
On my Latin dictionary I can find Saura, ae, but not Saurus.
I guess Saurus is a late latinization of Greek Sauros. |
Saurus doesn't mean "lizard" in latin though, it's a kind of fish (which is funny because in some languages there's a word "saur", "soor" associated with fish, but it's completely unrelated). My dictionary mentions Apuleius, Apologia 30. The meaning of saurus as lizard doesn't seem to be classical or even medieval or modern. It seems to be a 19th-century thing.
Which makes sense because Warhammer's saurus are likely short for "dinosaurus".
But back to the topic, I see many coaches considering that the chameleon skink is a missed opportunity because of how cool it looks in the lore.
And everytime someone tries to design a chameleon skink for homebrew rosters, they really want to give them new skills. A sticky tongue that gives extra arm, chameleon eyes for two-heads,or even titchy.
I don't really have a strong opinion on that matter (they are fine as they are), but maybe they don't provide a different enough alternative to regular skinks for a lot of players. They just see some "useless" skills and -1MA.
Maybe it could be better with titchy ST1, stab (or a ranged equivalent) and divestep for example, because that way it wouldn't be a slightly weird skink anymore, but rather its own kind of player.
But no matter what, the chameleon will probably stays in the same category as the DE assassin for some coaches. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 17:03 |
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The Chameleon Skink was always going to be a flop though, because the design team were adding something to one of the strongest races in the game already. So they had no option but to add a fluffy sub optimal choice.
I am just glad the design team showed restraint as it would have been criminal if they had buffed Lizardmen for the sake of a new model. And though I personally think they are a waste of space if some people are having fun with them then mission accomplished. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 17:19 |
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| Alien_the_Alien wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | I don't think it's classical Latin.
Latin already had a word for Lizard, Lacerta.
On my Latin dictionary I can find Saura, ae, but not Saurus.
I guess Saurus is a late latinization of Greek Sauros. |
Saurus doesn't mean "lizard" in latin though, it's a kind of fish (which is funny because in some languages there's a word "saur", "soor" associated with fish, but it's completely unrelated). My dictionary mentions Apuleius, Apologia 30. The meaning of saurus as lizard doesn't seem to be classical or even medieval or modern. It seems to be a 19th-century thing.
Which makes sense because Warhammer's saurus are likely short for "dinosaurus".
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In Classical Latin not, but in the scientific Latin, in the taxonomic dinosaurs' names, the "saurus" stands for "lizard" indeed.
There is another mention of germanic Middle Age Saurus word which is a latinization of Provencal "Saur" with the meaning of horse.
And yes, the Chameleon Skink looks akin to the Assassin, a gimmick player type supposed to add variety but failing big in terms of actual playability. |
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Rbthma
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
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May 26, 2020 - 18:02 |
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Yeah, I think Garion's got a good point. Given the rosters strength already you can't add anything too good. Shadowing and Pass Block are 2 skills that a Lizardmen team aren't likely to take on regular skinks so it adds something to the roster, but won't make the Chameleon an auto-take. If the Chameleon skink rolls a double + stat they could become interesting, but not irreplaceable as those same skill rolls on a normal skink are equally as good. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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What Garion said. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 19:02 |
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If specifically playing against a Dark Elf team with Runners the pass block skill may come in handy to counter the famous Dump Off skill. Presuming your Chameleon is in a relevant spot.. and be careful you are not in turn shadowed by an Assassin! |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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Lex_Rocket
Joined: Oct 27, 2018
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 20:38 |
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See, my experience trying DE with Runners is that they're a drag on the team. I can only imagine the same goes for assassins. They need way too many skills that are way too valuable elsewhere to be effective players and cause the team as a whole to fall apart.
Chameleon skinks at the very least don't drag the team down, the only players they're liable to take SPP from are skinks who to me, should only be getting more than 2 skills if they land a double or stat.
They don't really provide a weaker position to get hit, they don't really lead you into bad decisions, you gotta base/expose some skinks sometimes. Also yes, anything obviously good would make the team more broken.
If the chameleon was a stabber/secret weapon he'd have to be quite expensive so the only skinks with skills you could have would be him and the main runner. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 26, 2020 - 20:54 |
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The DE Runner is more useful than a Chameleon Skink.
He has P access which can be used to take Leader and he can be developed as a Thrower, moreover he has MA 7, so he adds a bit of speed to the slowest of the 4 Elven teams.
The Chameleon Skink has no special skill access and he's slower than a Skink. |
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