tyte
Joined: Jan 23, 2008
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 Posted:
Jan 24, 2008 - 05:38 |
 
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Fewer games, less SPP's and a boring style (to play with) is why they're hated. They're grinders.
I will only play against them with Orcs. They have a tough time with ST4 BOB's and a faster ball happier team. |
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Naama
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 05:48 |
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I rather play dwarves than orcs :I |
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EdgeDante
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
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Jan 24, 2008 - 06:32 |
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What do people like in games, both when spectating and playing?
SPP gain
Touchdowns
Casualties
Fouling
Risky plays
Dwarves have AV9 and thick skull - they don't get hurt or even knocked off the pitch very often, so that takes a serious toll on SPP gain and casualties.
Dwarves typically take at least 4 turns to score, but they'll certainly drag it out to 8 if you let them, leaving you with at least one entire half of slowly-moving cage-inching snorefest. Dwarves don't leap. Dwarves don't dodge. Dwarves don't claw or have two heads. Dwarves don't score more than 2 touchdowns. The most exciting thing a dwarf team does is Mighty Blow. (Insert cricket chirping)
I've yet to see a dwarf team with 3 or more DPs. I've seen maybe two with 2 DPs. Some have 1 DP. Most that I've seen have 0 DPs. Suffice to say, fouling is not a huge factor here. (This is possibly because most dwarf coaches realize the most likely way a dwarf will leave the pitch in many games is via the ref.)
But the very worst part is that the way dwarf teams are designed, I can say all of the above with almost ironclad certainty that 95% of FUMBBL's dwarf teams adhere to the letter everything I just said about dwarf teams. Deviations don't go far, and themselves are few and far between. Dwarves are yawn-provokingly predictable.
I don't hate dwarf teams in the way that I hate orcs because unlike orcs, dwarves DO have disadvantages. I can outrun them. I can outdodge them. I can outpass and outcatch them. But that doesn't make me want to play against them when I'm on here playing a game that I play for fun, when playing against dwarves simply... isn't fun.
(Yes, feel free to link some freak dwarf team with ag5s and DPs everywhere as if that refutes what I said - that's still not the norm and you're not fooling anyone.) |
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tautology
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 07:09 |
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Dwarf games are static. They clump up in solid formation and try to march down the pitch for an 8 turn score. They are good at it, probably better suited for this tactic than any other team...so they can win this way if well coached. If they suffer a set back (fumbled ball pickup, blitz result on kick-off, or just very bad timing on double/qudruple skulls) then they likely lose. They have very little capacity to make up ground in game where they fall behind (how many dwarf teams are the least bit confident that they can score twice in a half?)
This leads to slow and tedious play. There is a certain pleasure in playing against a very good dwarf coach, and it is certainly challenging....but playing against dwarfs in general is tedious.
On the other hand: Give your long beards all break-tackle instead of mighty blow on their second skill and start dodging regularly with your ample rerolls. You might have some fun and your opponent might just change their mind about playing vs dwarves.
Just a thought. |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2008 - 08:31 |
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I find playing vs dwarves or with dwarves kinda boring. The slow grinding just isn't for me. I do have a dwarf team, that could possibly play a passing game, but still they rarely do, since their speed isnt fast enough for it. The most enjoyable games vs dwarves, are the games where you're suposed to lose, but you manage atleast a tie. Like snotlings vs dwarves  |
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Shinan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2008 - 09:51 |
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I like dwarves. Yeah, they're fairly conservative in the way they play but it's a bit like World War 1 trench warfare... Oh okay, I'm sure most people don't find WW1 all that exciting but I find it fascinating. The slow, slow advances of lines and patient waiting until a hole is found.
Of course I'm pretty impatient when it comes to that so I'm not overly good at the slow advances but I still find dwarfplay wonderfully interesting in all its grindiness. Dwarf vs Dwarf is one of those really fun matchups. As a dwarf player I haven't really had the chance to try out the other non-slow matchups so I wonder how the conservative playing works against them.
As an elf player I've tried a couple of those matchups and I can't deny it's always scary but it's also fun to try to break the big wall of stunties that are coming at me. I obviously can't make my own because the wall has got a lot more guard than me.
I think that it's not actually the dwarf games themselves that people don't want to play. It's just the prospect of long-term where players are scared of losing a good player (or two) and not managing to make the opponent lose the same thing. Actual in-game dwarves are rarely much better than the other races. Their limited ballcarrying capabilities restrict them quite a lot.
So yeah, what I'm saying here is that I love dwarves. They're short, grumpy and slow to change. You wouldn't expect a team like that to change its ways any time soon. Dwarves still play the ancient variation of Blood Bowl and don't really go around changing their tactics a whole lot. Other races may go around and do their things and make weird combos or change tactics on the fly. Dwarves don't do that. Dwarves are a conservative lot. |
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"Älä löi, en ole hurrit." |
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Nachtogen
Joined: Jan 03, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 10:11 |
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I agree with Shinan, I like dwarfs. Ok, they're simple to bash with, but they're also slow, if you play vs a good coach, it's quite easy to loose with dwarfs. They aren't the best team by far. Just quite solid.
Well, anyways, I like dwarfs, but in my defence, I like almost all teams |
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Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 10:26 |
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| SillySod wrote: | Dwarfs are predictable, present you with the same challenge as the last dwarf coach, often coach dwarfs because they have a dull personality or compensating for a flaw in their play
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That made me laugh. 
Hey Silly maybe there's something else: those coaches play with short players because they have short d***s.
Mwahahahhaaa
/me looks at JackDaniels
Any comments Jack?
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 10:37 |
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By the way, I never gave my own opinion on dorfs.
Well, it's a real challenge to play dorfs. Breaking a cage or slowing them down, forcing them to run because time is running out, figuring out how he could reform a cage + gain squares.
All this IS TACTICALLY interesting. Requieres either some skills.
However, sometimes, you just get quickly out-cas'ed early on...An it goes into a boring game.
Loosing miserably is not as hard as loosing miserably + having to rebuild a team (what means more losses) |
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Andrelas
Joined: Aug 02, 2007
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Jan 24, 2008 - 10:53 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: |
For me the thruth is this:
->everyone start with block
->thus, you pick guard at 6 spps
->thus you have plenty of MB at 16 what makes them bashy, thus avoided. |
Join that Thick Skull and Tackle and make them hard to beat down, what funny a game could be if your players are putted away KO or worst, and you saw the dorfs only taking sun baths standing on the ground for couple of turns... |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2008 - 10:57 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | SillySod wrote: | Dwarfs are predictable, present you with the same challenge as the last dwarf coach, often coach dwarfs because they have a dull personality or compensating for a flaw in their play
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That made me laugh.
Hey Silly maybe there's something else: those coaches play with short players because they have short d***s.
Mwahahahhaaa
/me looks at JackDaniels
Any comments Jack?
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If you have a small ...., aren't you supposed to play big things (like Ogres) to compensate? So coaching dwarfs (let alone halflings!) means you don't need to compensate.. so to speak.. aaaaanyway! getting a bit off topic now.. unless of course, this is a universal truth, and therefore dwarf coaches are disliked because of envy.. |
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Snorri
Joined: Jun 07, 2004
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Jan 24, 2008 - 11:21 |
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| EdgeDante wrote: |
I've yet to see a dwarf team with 3 or more DPs. I've seen maybe two with 2 DPs. Some have 1 DP. Most that I've seen have 0 DPs. Suffice to say, fouling is not a huge factor here. (This is possibly because most dwarf coaches realize the most likely way a dwarf will leave the pitch in many games is via the ref.)
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You can't have played many long running tournaments. 3 DP's is almost the norm at high TR. As far as getting bang for your buck, no other skill comes close for a longbeard who's hits the pitch skilled. Only reason they dont do it in ranked is for fear of getting even fewer games than they already do. |
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Zaghrog
Joined: Dec 09, 2005
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Jan 24, 2008 - 11:43 |
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| EdgeDante wrote: | | Dwarves have AV9 and thick skull - they don't get hurt or even knocked off the pitch very often, so that takes a serious toll on SPP gain and casualties. |
This is exactly the first thing I thought when I read the first post. None of the teams I've played have reached high TR, so developing a team is the only thing I've really cared about. For a lot of teams gaining SPP is easier through casualties, because the fact is that scoring a touchdown is harder than knocking players off the field (I haven't played elves). And Dorfs just don't leave the field no matter how hard they get bashed. |
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WAAAGH!!
'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go... |
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Idolen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2008 - 12:52 |
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Nuff bout the dorfs... they're even boring to read about... If you want killed and maimed Woodies, look at the replays of this team:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=8972
I've killed alot of woodies there.. usually via gfi and dodging... I'll bet you find some killed by double skulls too if you look really hard.
Welcome back! |
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Manp
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
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Jan 24, 2008 - 13:01 |
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I agree to some degree that Dwarfs can be boring to play against..but i dont think they are overpowered at all, played by a good coach they get pretty nasty at high TR due to thick skull wich make them more likely to win a bashing contest, but this only applies if the coach has managed to spread out the SPP to the Longbeards. More often than not the runners and blitzers tend to hug all the SPP making the team more voulnerable too fouls and less viable vs especially orcs and chaos who usually have more injury skills. Some will probably disagree with this.
On another note i think that dwarfs are probably one of the best learning teams for new coaches because of their limited tactics..its all about positioning. |
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