Wraith
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jun 24, 2011 - 01:10 |
 
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@Kinks: Extra is the key word... if it didn't have a downside, it would be very over-powered. Blocking/blitzing isn't immune to misfortune either. Fouling is more risky and all, but it's also an automatic AV roll, unlike blocks/blitzes. DP at +1 is worth the TV investment, particularly for a non-essential player. DP at +2 is a no-brainer for the TV investment, particularly for a non-essential player.
Dirty player in LRB4 was extremely broken imho. This is mainly because it was cheap, easy to get and didn't need other skills to be effective. Fouling by itself was balanced though. |
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Insanity, is merely the lack of fear... to act on your deepest, darkest thoughts. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jun 28, 2011 - 21:48 |
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Hi Wallace 
Has the riff raff cleared? 
Re: PiOn
I'm guessing in the end Ian/Galaks PiOn is the more popular fix. I like everything about it, except how vulnerable AV7 remains. I get that AV7 'should be vulnerable' - but IMO this is bordering on unplayable. Not short term unplayable, but too hard to keep alive in a long league setting.
| Quote: | | 5) Bank Rule: Far too mechanistic. Why does one pile of cash affect TV but not another? There's no logic behind it from a fluff perspective. |
It makes perfect sense.
One pile is stuck in a Bank, hence completely unavailable for the match, so it doesn't count. The cash that you did bring along counts.
As for the roster comments, this may come across as defensive, but it's really just me trying to explain why things ended up the way they did (after a lot of discussion):
>Orcs.
At least we agree they're Ezy mode. I know the stats don't show them to be all that great. Maybe they're only a great starting team. Or maybe they attract the noobs and timmies. I'll admit that this is somewhat subjective, but I know a lot of coaches who feel that the BBRC should have nerfed them, when they did LRB6, and dammit I'll get the job done myself 
Maybe it's just the aesthateics of 1 player in 16 needing to be a lineman 
>Humans
I don't think AV8 catchers is vanilla flavoured. Aren't all other catchers AV7? I think it's very fitting: They may not be the best catchers in the game, but at least they're tough. I also think that currently the human catcher is a truly rare kind of position player because you really don't want to use many of. The human team is not good enough to have such a player. Orcs get their 4 black orcs. Humans get 4 catchers, but in reality any more than 2 is a huge liability.
>Dwarfs:
Playtesting has only just started, but so far it seems that the Troll Slayer change does impact the roster significantly. Good, IMO.
>Woodies
Personally, I think Strip Ball wardancer by game 2 is a big balance issue. I agree that replacing block instead of dodge might have been more fluffy. But it would, as you say, also have been a bigger nerf. I think...
>Undead
| Quote: | | G access on big guys is a no-no |
But Mummies were never big guys. They weren't part of JJ's big guy articles, and they used to have G access.
Also (after the change), they don't have loner, they don't have a negaskill, and they don't have mighty blow.
That's not a big guy!
>Gobbos
I've done a spot of extra testing with this, and IMO a 3 troll roster doesn't seem to be a problem at all. Question is how it will interact with the Right Stuff change...
>Halflings
Dryad hate duly noted. As stated, I'm considering some alternatives.
>Khemri
In all honesty, I don't think fouling will be that different.
The +1 is nice, but it isn't earth shattering, and you'll still be sent off 30% of the time if you break armor.
I don't think it will suddenly make fouling hugely popuar.
As for the change, I'm very curious what the test tournament shows.
If it ain't right, I'll just o back to the old version, but probably remove Decay, as it (IMO) is an absolutelyu unnecessary kick in the nuts to a pretty weak team.
>Ogres
Ogres or Gnoblars - I honestly don't care, but the BB fluff doen't have gnoblars.
I don't like the thought of 0-8 ogres myself, and I do think the roster is more playable than most people seem to think here. It will be even more so if POMB takes a hit. I could see 0-2 goblins. But not 0-8 ogres.
>Brets
OK, they really aren't part of these rules. I just can't have a BB document without getting them in there. Slightly OCD, but there you go.
The feedback I'm getting is that they're strong, but not overly so. So far I have no urge to nerf them.
Thanks for your thoughts and your time,
Cheers
Martin |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jun 28, 2011 - 22:05 |
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Hi Kinks,
thanks for your thoughts also.
I'll be a bit brief, as the missus is due home any minute
Perhaps my reply to Wallace sheds some more light on my thinking
>PiOn
As stated, I think the problem with Ian/Galaks rule is the hurt level for AV7 teams.
Though admittedly, I also don't like that it breaks 2 basic rules (stacking always allowed + no armor/injury rerolls).
I know that my PiOn always works (well, except for the 'you have to follow up' bit) - but consider this: All skills that are +1 modifiers always apply. Heck, mighty blow always applies, and nobody seems to complain. Slapping it with a more draconian punishment just makes no sense, as far as I can tell.
>Humans
I'm testing them without the blitzer price cut for now.
I think they've gotten a fair bit already.
Also, I honestly think humans are a fine starting team. 40K price cuts on the starting roster could be a problem. I think.
>Woodies
I'm all for more SB in BB. But not in this particular combo, where it makes an already awesome player borderline broken. I'd rather see SB tweaked to be slightly more useful... But I digress
>Slann
Bland as slann blitzers are, in my experience the team is absolutely fine, and gets very nasty as TV rises.
>Amazon
OK, I know you've got extra special hate for them.
I don't think they're that overpowered, but perhaps I'm wrong. They certainly seem unpopular.
They just might need a fix...
But it would have to be a simple one. I've seen enough outlandish suggestions to make my head hurt.
I'd do it in the same style as the other nerfs: A skill-swap, with one of the new skills. I'd make the blitzers Wrodge.
But then, honestly, their performance drops off rather sharply - and I think that would have to be adressed too.
Perhaps a Krox? Or GA access on the linewomen. That's some of the least outlandish things I can think of.
...and as you can tell, I have no intention of running a testing league here.
I'm trying to maintain a life on the side here
I'm running the pbem tournament, and so far that is all I can manage.
But I'd love it if someone else could manage it. I just can't.
Cheers
Martin |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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Jun 28, 2011 - 22:16 |
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The Krox on the Zons would be cool, and a nice addition I think. You could also just give them an Ogre, and say its female.
As for the Halflings. Give them another Tree. You know you want to. You can tell people that you have THREE which will be something everyone will SEE, like ME or my friend LEE, since he would like another TREE, PLEAse? |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 28, 2011 - 22:30 |
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A Kroxigor. On Amazons. And I thought the other stuff was ropey!
Really, did no-one note Beedogs?! I'm only getting more convinced this is some orchestrated wind-up. A sane man would have left it well dead. |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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Jun 28, 2011 - 22:34 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | | Humans get 4 catchers, but in reality any more than 2 is a huge liability |
I've seen some very effective human teams with more than 2 catchers here, but I agree that 2 is the status quo. I carry 2 myself when I can in a developed human team.
| plasmoid wrote: | | but probably remove Decay, as it (IMO) is an absolutelyu unnecessary kick in the nuts to a pretty weak team. |
Spot on. If you can do ANYTHING to make this happen down the road, it would be great. |
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Wraith
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 28, 2011 - 22:36 |
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Give zons a unicorn, like the team set used to have...
6 4 3 8 wild Animal, loner, no hands, horns, thick skull, sprint and sure feet - SA access - 130k |
_________________
Insanity, is merely the lack of fear... to act on your deepest, darkest thoughts. |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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Jun 28, 2011 - 23:28 |
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Unicorns? That sounds silly. Give them a Tree! |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jun 28, 2011 - 23:38 |
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Hi Pgoo,
| Quote: | | A Kroxigor. On Amazons. And I thought the other stuff was ropey! Really, did no-one note Beedogs?! I'm only getting more convinced this is some orchestrated wind-up. A sane man would have left it well dead. |
Orchestrated wind-up?
Looks to me like the only troll here is you.
Well. Today anyway.
You did notice Krox would be for nerfed zons, right?
Do you agree that Amazon start strong, but finish weak?
Do you agree that having wrodgers rather than blodgers will be a decent kick in the... well... vulvae ? |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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Jun 28, 2011 - 23:54 |
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If you are going with Wrestle Dodge Amazons for 90K, then at least give them +1 Armor or +1 Movement. |
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paulhicks
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Jun 29, 2011 - 00:23 |
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| Wraith wrote: | Give zons a unicorn, like the team set used to have...
6 4 3 8 wild Animal, loner, no hands, horns, thick skull, sprint and sure feet - SA access - 130k |
or maybe just some players with different stats |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jun 29, 2011 - 00:41 |
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Give the zons a Kroxigor?! That's not a fix, unless you spell it F-A-I-L. |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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Jun 29, 2011 - 01:21 |
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No, Fix is spelled F-I-X. I am right about that right? Now I'm confused. How do you spell Fail then if Fix is spell F-A-I-L? Is it M-R-_F-O-U-L..... never mind.
Sure, if you remove block from zons and replace it with Wrestle, then it would be cool to give them a Kroxigor. If you do that though, you should give the zon blitzers something else, since losing Wrestle is a big blow. I suggest this.
7/3/3/7 Wrestle, Dodge - 90K.
So, bottom line, Zons get a Kroxigor or whatever after they lose Block. Can't be more plain than that.
But for now, this keeps the thread going, and on subject matter, so that is pretty. This is the Constructive thread that never ends, despite what people try. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Jun 29, 2011 - 01:49 |
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Erm?
Wrestle is that much worse than block that in order to get a general skill traded for a general skill, you give them access to one of the best big guys in the game?
Don't agree with that at all. Personally, I think a Zon team with wrestle on the blitzers is just as playable. What you lose in killability, you gain in the fact that from game 1, you have 4 amazing ball poppers. Sure, the team might evolve differently, as strength on wrestle players isn't great, but it isn't an nerf big enough to need to give them a big guy. If anything...your wrestle/block swop does exactly the opposite of what you intend. Makes them even stronger at lower TV (as now even a block ball carrier can't be protected against them), and nerfs them at high TV (where you need the block to keep standing/hitting).
As to how to sensibly nerf Zons at low TV while letting them compete better at high TV...not sure! All I know is that that solution sounds horrible to me. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jun 29, 2011 - 02:07 |
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Human catchers are fantastic. The deal with Humans is that they learn to do different things. They have skills instead of stats. I might not field all my Catchers at once, but 4 on the team would be great! |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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