mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| koadah wrote: | | How do you see which teams are in a league? |
You can't currently, though I've been reliably informed that that's next on the list of things to do  |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | I've been reliably informed that that's next on the list of things to do |
Indeed, unless someone gets distracted by oauth...  |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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 Posted:
Dec 09, 2015 - 16:52 |
 
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| Christer wrote: | | Indeed, unless someone gets distracted by oauth... |
Awesome news! |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 09, 2015 - 21:05 |
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Will it become possible to move teams between coaches in this new system?
I.e. one coach resigns/gets fired/is eaten by the troll, and a new one is appointed? |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 09, 2015 - 22:30 |
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I was thinking about this in the past days. I see two distinct main cases for predetermined skill progression:
- In an open environment: As a ruleset option, this should apply. With "1:3N,4:2ND" settings, after four matches the team could not get any more skills. Ever. Well, at least for non-progression teams. For progressive teams, when a player dies who got some assigned skills, those skill slots shold get allowed to get redistributed for other players.
- In a tournament: This would assume the skill progression to be set in tournament options rather than as an overall rule. For non-progression teams the predetermined skills apply only during the tournament and the team got reset when out of the tourney. For progressive teams, the skills could be assigned temporary (for only the duration of the tourney) or permanently (for example as a reward to semi-finalists and above) determined by the tournament setting. In this case, these extra skills would stack upon the existing and earned ones. Again, when a player levels up and takes a temporary skill assigned to him, that skill slot should let to be reassigned to another player.
Tournaments should also have an option to freeze teams (making them non-progression) for during the tournament. This would let weaker races to advance further, and do the skill rolls after the tournament. Since they would not get winnings, gold should be given to them for their result.
This is nice but has gone to far, and I would not think Christer would want the work this system requires.
However, being able to set team progression and skill progression separately in a ruleset seems to have nontrivial meanings.
Generally, I would think the predetermined progression system was meant to let NAFC (tabletop) style tournaments to get organized. If that is true, teams and skills should be set as non-progression in the ruleset, and the predetermined skill progression part should be set in the tournament options (and should get removed from the ruleset domain) since that part is connected to that particular tournament only. Moreover, only non-progression teams should be allowed to take part in such a tourney.
I dont think this a major issue, but I wanted to share my feelings. If you managed to read down to here suffered by my poor language and weird logic, I salute you. |
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ryanfitz
Joined: Mar 24, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 01:37 |
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Christer you have done the amazing again, thank you.
Is there any thought of allowing league managers to be able to assign Spps and skills within the new leagues, not meta-group.
Eg.
In a draft format league could a manager :
give a team a - 28 spp Blitzer, Tackle and Strip Ball
and a 2nd team - 35 spp Blitzer, Tackle, Dodge, and Strip Ball
In a draft league some coaches would value the 3 skill Blitzer while others would want the 2 skill Blitzer close to the next skill and could "draft" as they wanted to.
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth.Thanks,
~fitz |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 01:44 |
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| ryanfitz wrote: | | Not to look a gift horse in the mouth. |
indeed  |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 07:59 |
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| ryanfitz wrote: | | Is there any thought of allowing league managers to be able to assign Spps and skills within the new leagues, not meta-group. |
This has been confirmed yes. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | In an open environment: |
Currently, predetermined skill progression is likely counted as game #0 in terms of progression. I'm not entirely sure what would happen if you set up a ruleset with 0:3N or something similar.
Using the number of games played is probably not a bad proxy, and I might add that. Possibly even as an option in the ruleset.
In terms of assigning skills, coaches can change the skill assignments as long as the team is not scheduled to play a game. This means that if you had standard team progression and predetermined skill progression, a player with an assigned skill could die off and you'd be able to reassign the skill to someone else.
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | In a tournament: |
In tournaments, what the system does is that it looks at the round number for the tournament in order to find which skills to apply. This means that the same team can participate in multiple tournaments and the skill assignment still functions as expected.
Enabling progression for teams in the context of a ruleset with predetermined skills should work as it is now. The only problem I know exists is tournaments where a skilled player dies. If this happens, the skills can't be reassigned, which may or may not be what the tournament organizers want.
It could well be that I add a setting for this as well, and off the top of my head I can think of three different "modes": "No reassignment", "Allow reassignment only for skills that haven't been in play yet", "Free reassignment".
Overall, with predetermined skill selection, it makes no sense to have skills persist on the team. If that's something people want to do, it'll be in the context of skill rewards/prizes that the league staff assigns manually to teams.
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | Tournaments should also have an option to freeze teams (making them non-progression) for during the tournament |
This is something I am unlikely to support, as it would either require me to do changes in the underlying data model used for matches, or become a nightmare to maintain (ie, explain why a team has the skills/SPPs they have). It doesn't feel critical to me at this point.
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | However, being able to set team progression and skill progression separately in a ruleset seems to have nontrivial meanings. |
This is already supported.
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | Generally, I would think the predetermined progression system was meant to let NAFC (tabletop) style tournaments to get organized. |
Certainly, and it was first used for the RTNAFC tournament some time ago.
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | If that is true, teams and skills should be set as non-progression in the ruleset, and the predetermined skill progression part should be set in the tournament options (and should get removed from the ruleset domain) since that part is connected to that particular tournament only. Moreover, only non-progression teams should be allowed to take part in such a tourney. |
I don't fully agree with your assessment. I think both settings belong on the ruleset level (as opposed to the tournament level). There is no significant reason to force non-progression on teams with predetermined skills, although it might become somewhat strange over time. That, however, is up to the league organizer to handle and not a technical problem.
In my opinion, progressive teams with predetermined skills could certainly work, and I think it might even be somewhat interesting to try it. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| ryanfitz wrote: | | Is there any thought of allowing league managers to be able to assign Spps and skills within the new leagues, not meta-group. |
Yes. This will be at a later stage though. For the moment, my current priorities are:
- Visualize league membership
- Allow teams to transfer between leagues
- Custom roster support |
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Victor_Vermis
Joined: Mar 31, 2013
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 Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 11:15 |
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| Christer wrote: |
In my opinion, progressive teams with predetermined skills could certainly work, and I think it might even be somewhat interesting to try it. |
I like that the option is there even though there wasn't a popular format that called for it. Sometimes just throwing tools out there for people can lead to interesting results!
An idea Im kicking around now is to use Predetermined+Progression to facilitate players moving between teams. A player moving to a new team is simply created on the new roster and can have their old skills assigned immediately. They would start at 0 SPP but this can be written off with appropriate fluff. If players potentially switch teams at any point in the season, then the predetermined skill assigning would "fire" before every game for any potential transfers.
As all teams have the same number of skills to assign, some teams will have "extra" skills with nowhere to put them. These could be assigned to a filler player who is then fired immediately. It shouldn't be a problem to do this frequently as custom treasuries eliminate money issues.
A lot of this is dependent on things working just right, but I'll probably give it a shot soon. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, expanding the predetermined choices beyond Normal & Doubles (+Stats.. maybe even Extraordinary & Mutations on non-M players) would be amazing for this
Thanks, Christer! FUMBBL puts the other Fantasy Football game(s) to shame. |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 12:52 |
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| Christer wrote: | | In my opinion, progressive teams with predetermined skills could certainly work, and I think it might even be somewhat interesting to try it. |
Thanks for the detailed answer! It helped me a lot to understand the way progression is handled. Great! I am convinced now, and am looking forward to see some exotic tournaments based on the various progression options. Go go! |
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Zelazow
Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 14:24 |
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Hey, it's possible to make the league with Swedish Eurobowl ruleset? |
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Leonek
Joined: Jul 03, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2015 - 16:36 |
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I'm doing something wrong.
Created ruleset (more money, no progresion, skills prior to games)
creating team for this league and the money are normal and no skills. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Leonek wrote: | I'm doing something wrong.
Created ruleset (more money, no progresion, skills prior to games)
creating team for this league and the money are normal and no skills. |
I did this at first. Your ruleset ID is still set to 6. Likely you didn't save the changes when you edited it, or something has caused it to revert back. Change it to the ID of your ruleset and save and it should work. |
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