Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 18, 2004 - 22:03 |
 
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Sorry can't resist.
From Milnestar
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I'm afraid I can't agree. With my undead i started with 1 re-roll and 1 FF. They are now 274/235 with FF 17
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Don't know if that proves much except that you've been very lucky with your ff rolls. In your 1st 15 games you went 6-1-8 with average winnings of $45K/game. You are fortunate to play undead with REGENERATE. Most teams with those winnings wouldn't be able to afford replacement players and might instead face retirement. |
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milnestar
Joined: Oct 23, 2003
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Feb 19, 2004 - 21:55 |
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Yep - that is the point I am making, with teams like Gobbo's, undead, khemri etc you dont need that money to go on FF at the start. I must admit now i'm older and wiser i always go for 3 re-rolls, but I like to buy an apothecary, cos whenever I havent i always lose a key player in my first game or 2. There are so many ways of starting. When I play elves I will start with 11 linemen as they will build up skills rather that relying on a thrower or whatever, that could easily pick up a niggle or RIP. Everyone does their own thing and me - I start with small crowds. After all FF will only go up from there, and once the punters start coming to teh Theater Of Death - they never want to go home !!! |
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 19, 2004 - 22:14 |
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I'd have to disagree on the gobo part. A starting gobo team should max their fan factor rather than take an extra reroll or buying another reserve gobo. Rerolls and gobos are buyable later, getting higher fan factor is hard to come by, and starting with a low fan factor WILL come back and bite you in the ass later on when your opposition starts to gain block and tackle.
Gobos will start taking major injuries, your STR drops but your TR keeps on going upwards. You earn less and less money for every match. Compounded with that is the fact that you are forced to play either even TR teams (that will rip you apart) or even'ish STR teams (giving them a truckload of handicaps, which can be risky). Add the fact that most low STR teams have low fan factor and you get stuck in the ever downward spiral of injuries, less players to field, earning less cash due to high TR and low gates, having even less players to field, loosing games, loosing ff etc....
So max your ff at start as gobo. 9 instead of 5 fan factor is just one reserve gobo difference. You'll want to concentrate on giving your unskilled noob trolls as many 3db as possible anyway, so gobos usually stay out of contact and assist instead. That and having dodge will keep em safe at start. Unless you fancy going up against norse or dwarf in your first few games of course. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 19, 2004 - 23:05 |
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My experiences with almost maximising FF and RRs have been really good.
There's one exception though:
Once I've started Pro Elves with FF 9 and 5 RR's. That was silly, retrospectively. One Blitzer with Block and 2 Throwers (who cost just 10 k more for Pass and access to passing skills) will save you many RR's. I would start them with 3 RR's and FF 9 now, leaving 30k in the bank. |
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Kattmannen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 19, 2004 - 23:11 |
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I would never leave cash in the bank.
I think every little penny should be spent! It makes difference on the pitch |
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kjwise
Joined: Jan 14, 2004
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Feb 19, 2004 - 23:14 |
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High FF is also critical in getting games. When your TR goes high you don't really want to play against low FF teams and get no money or even loose some!
Starting with high FF is plain courtesy. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 19, 2004 - 23:41 |
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| Kattmannen wrote: | I would never leave cash in the bank.
I think every little penny should be spent! It makes difference on the pitch |
Under normal circumstances I'd agree. But at 70k these Throwers seem a bargain to me and I want to have at least one player with Block to start with. Hey, at least the apoth is guaranteed and the other positional players will come sooner. |
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Haska
Joined: Feb 09, 2004
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Feb 19, 2004 - 23:56 |
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Ok my first team here was my skaven, typical 1 rat Ogre, 2 Stormvermin, 3 Guttern Runners, and about 10 Linesman and an apothacary. This left me with no rerolls and 1 fan factor. Now i'll agree having the low fan factor does make it an uphill struggle at first but heres the thing, i'm a roleplayer first and foremost. I'm my opinion a brand new team should only ever have max 3 fan factor. The idea behind my teams is that they "gain" fans through winning (hence fan factor increases). Starting a team with 9 fan factor, in my opinion, goes against how i like to play. Now i'm not telling any one to play it my way, i'm not telling anyone not too. But for me watching my team start to gain fans is far more rewarding. I just can't see how a starting fresh new team can have ([9x6]x1000) 54000 fans turn up for their first game. To me that just ain't gonna happen.
Altho on a side note, my rats have had the bejesus kicked outta em. Both stormvermin now dead, 1 gutter Runner RIP. another with a nasty Nigglying, but in that time i've gained 3 fan factor to bring me up to 4, fair enough i could have had that amount of fan factor( higher even) on the outset if i had sacrificed a gutternr unner for fan factor or rerolls. But _earning_ that fan factor makes it more worth while in my opinion.
So in the 'try before you buy' sense i'm gonna make a new team, with "power gamed" fan factor and at least 2 rerolls. Play a few games and then see which way i prefer. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 20, 2004 - 04:46 |
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| Haska wrote: | | ...but heres the thing, i'm a roleplayer first and foremost. I'm my opinion a brand new team should only ever have max 3 fan factor. ... I just can't see how a starting fresh new team can have ([9x6]x1000) 54000 fans turn up for their first game. To me that just ain't gonna happen.... |
That all depends upon the setting in which you're playing. One can argue that 54,000 fans ( a 1/10,077,696 chance, by the way) is a moderate showing for a professional bloodbowl match. Maybe real big matches get up to 250,000 fans showing up and 1/5 of that isn't a great turnout.
The Carolina Panther's first game (ever, as a new team) had 58,808 fans in attendance. Not bad for a brand new team, eh? The Jacksonville Jaguars got 72,363. I'm not saying that the NFL is really Bloodbowl in disguise but you have to admit that the U.S. does look an awful lot like the Empire... 
The max of FF is 9. The difference between that and your own personal limitation of 3 is merely one of scale. Do you view your team as a bunch of schmucks who play in sandlots or professional athletes starting a new franchise? Can you say that either view is wrong?
Starting with a 'high' fan factor doesn't mean you're a munchkin. It just means that you view your team as professional athletes who do this for a living and have a lot of financial backing to ever even get out onto the field. Those backers surely want to see some marketing going on to make sure they get their investments back.
You don't want to default on your loan from the First National Bank of Naggaroth. Trust me. |
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bonefaith
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
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Feb 20, 2004 - 05:09 |
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i think that with woodelf one can easily start with low ff , i will grow up very quickly assuming that one is sure to win most of the first 8/9 games , and go with rerolls , on the other hand if you take some nasty casualty you will never recover a lost war dancer or catcher .with Chaos is a must start with high ff and rr , i made some experiment with high ff or low ff , much or minus rr .
i am talking by an experince in real bb starting from 1st edition , i am here in fumbbl only from the end of 2003 so something i am saying may be wrong here . |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 20, 2004 - 22:16 |
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Wood Elves arguably need to start with a higher fan factor than any other team in order to remain competitive (by which I don't mean min-maxing the rules, I mean to try to put a whole team on the field!).
Expensive players (highest average cost in the game, I believe), and low armor means that you need cash more than anyone else. As the team progresses, you need to keep the cash flow coming in to replace players which die more frequently (low av, few starting skills) and age more quickly (arguably they earn SPPs faster than anyone else).
Also, one bad pitch invasion could theoretically cost you $620k (2 WDs, a Tree and 3 catchers - plus whatever SPPs they've earned). You need that FF to earn money and win those PI rolls. |
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swilhelm73
Joined: Oct 06, 2003
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Feb 20, 2004 - 23:00 |
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I think the rule of thumb is quite obviously the more quickly you lose players and the more expensive those players the more FF you need to start with.
So Undead/Nurglings can start fairly low.
Dwarves, Rotters, and Orcs less so.
Elves of all 4 sorts really need to start very high to just survive, baring lots of luck or serious ag only team cherry picking.
Of course, any team type can get destroyed early on with a particularly bad game and a low FF, and more people will play you with a higher FF.
So if you are trying to max/min then maybe its worth it going with the low FF, but if you want to have a team for the long haul, you really need that high FF. |
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meanandgreen
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
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May 21, 2004 - 12:35 |
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| the_grey_ghost wrote: | yea Guys I here Ya. I have started three teams now. 1 skaven 1 orc and 1 Dark Elf.
I thought that my orks were invincible. They had three rerolls and were pretty strong up front with three blockers and an ogre. But they only had a fan factor of three. Now it is one. They have never won a game and I don't think they will. ff1 (started at 3) rr3
My dark elfs lost their witch elf first game. They suck because they can't replace him and can't do anything about it. ff3 rr2
My skaven on the other hand have a (1/1/2) record and those losses came vs two goblin teams with 140 points (both of them.) ff10 rr2
My advice is this:
Don't try and take too many teams on that are just way more experinced then you aare (it is discouraging)
Make a team with a decient fan factor. 3 ain't good enough.
grab rerolls at least two. cause they really help.
Get a big guy if you want but be wary of wild animals, they arn't too usefull till you get pro or block. Don't count on ur big guys
Don't worry about not having "that" player. Get them later. start off small. |
this looks more like a tell sell commercial than a topic with all those guys saying out of own experience how great it is! |
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moussambani
Joined: May 13, 2004
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May 21, 2004 - 14:29 |
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High FF is inportant, but maybe you don't nned to go all the way to 9, especially if your players are cheap. |
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Tenjou_Utena
Joined: May 02, 2004
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May 26, 2004 - 07:12 |
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1 FF = 3,500 More Fans at a game.
Every 20,000 Fans that attend add 10,000 in winnings to each side.
Winning adds 10,000 to your earnings from a game.
So Every 5.7 FF adds 10,000 in winnings.
1 FF = ~1,754 In winnings each game.
So, in a theoretical case where a team starts with 1 FF, but wins all their games and a team starts with 9 FF but looses all their games, setting aside FF fluctuations for a moment.
In one game the 1 FF will probably take home 11,754 + Standard Gate Earnings(tm).
In one game the 9 F will take home 15,785 + Standard Gate Earnings.
Therefore, on average, Your second game you are behind by 3,800 going with 1 FF vs. 9, assuming you win. |
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