FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 17:49

Censer bearer is Clan Pestilens, not Clan Skryre. Putting a censer bearer in the Skryre slaves roster, would send me on a path of wrath so wrathy, that would make my Khorne roster tantrum look like mild disdain.

xnoelx

Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 17:52

Oh, yeah, I should've known that. A temporary slip of the faculties. My apologies. Pretend I never said that second bit then.

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MisterFurious

Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 18:18

I had made a post about Horrors a while back in the Horrors thread about things that didn't make much sense to me. One recommendation I had was to lower the Firewyrms's AG to 2 or 3 and give them Accurate and Nerves of Steel to compensate. I understand that they have AG 4 to make them good at chucking bombs, but it also makes them good at dodging and positioning. Also, they have Agility access because of AG 4, which I don't think is right. SPM is good enough as is. They shouldn't have A, too. Hell, if it were up to me, I'd probably drop the S, too and just let them have PM. Another suggestion I had was to make them Really Stupid instead of Wild Animal so you can actually use them to throw bombs, but you always have to have someone next to them that is running the risk of getting blown up on a fumbled bomb.

I also don't like how the Flamers have skills for bombing but also blitzing as they seem to be a very contradictory sets of skills. If you're bombing with them, then all the speed and blitzing skills are wasted and if you're blitzing with them then all the bombing skills are wasted, too. I think the Greater Horrors should be the blitzers of the team with the Flamers being focused more on bombing. But, hey, that could just be me.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 18:23

I wish flamers would just blitz. Bombers with no secret weapon roll just make me so green with envy, when my cannons just disappear due to HMP.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 18:54

I think tinkering with horrors at all, will make for a major rebuild. The fact the FWs have wild animal makes them unlikely bombers. AG4 doesn't really sit very well fluffwise, but gamewise I still think they're pretty well balanced.

WhatBall

Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:03

Personally, I hated the Horrors on paper, but on the field, they play very well. There may be some small tweak (like removing Leader) but overall they end up being one of the best balanced teams. They are also very unique.

Can the AG4 be explained by the Firewyrms being hard to block/mark because they are shifting and snake-like? I don't know them well enough.

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harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:06

Well I'm all about the fluff, but in stunty it isn't as important to explain the skills IMO. As long as the positionals are to character.

Duder

Joined: Mar 13, 2012

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:12

My 2 cents:

I have been playing Chaos Halfiling, Skyre, (I started stunty with these 2 based on recommendation of the 3 Die Block stunty episode) Pygmy, Fairies, and Strigoyan (these 3 I picked because they seemed under represented in the nightmare).

Pygmy is my favorite of these, but I do think they need some tweaking. Overall I think they are a great tactical team that provide a nice challenge and wouldn't want to see a drastic overhaul. My biggest concern for the team is that the Jaguar Warriors are not worthwhile. I often just benched mine because he had little to offer on a that drive. Also including ttm would be nice. The lack of dodge makes the team very crunchy and does not fluffwise fit in my opinion, little hunter/stalker pygmies should be very adept at dodging. I would consider changing the gen access over to the jaguars (and giving the jaguars dodge instead of sprint) and giving the alligators st access and ttm.

Fairies, I think I was just not up to coaching these guys and did not like playing them, so my experience is limited to 4 games. My general experience was that the trees would get stuck and the rest would get crushed under heel. Also the trees are very vulnerable to bombs, and once they go down back to crushed under heel.

Strigoyan: My 3/4/11 record can attest to the fact that I find them tough to coach. They are hard to get off the ground, but I like how my team is shaping up. I do find them fun and enticed by the promise of their potential. I would consider helping the poor thralls with thick skull or AV.

Chaos Halfling: Fun team. I would not change them.

Skyre: I like the play mechanic of them though, the st1 guard linos are very unique and make for interesting play. I definitely understand not wanting to play against them, but they are fun to play.

General comments:
-Bombs destroy my teams. I have had to many games where bombs have put out most of my team quickly. I think pass access on the bombers is too powerful. It seems impossible for a halfling to make it all 20 squares of movement without a hail mary passer or 1 of 3 nearer bombers nailing him and likely most of the guys around him.

-I do not get my team logos on the field in stunty, all my other teams I have played still do, but not the stunty teams. My logos were working at the begining of the nightmare, but then..., I like my logos, I worked hard on some of them and they add to the game for me.

-I don't like playing against gnomes. There's the bomb issue, but also the 8 AV. Playing gnomes is ducking under a rain of bombs with small chances of hurting the other team.

xnoelx

Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:18

Horrors are my favourite team, & I really don't think they need change. The tough choices between bash and bombs for your four ST players are definitely a good point; for one thing it means that teams will be more varied, you won't just see identical builds everywhere, as you do for some races.

I'd really prefer if Greater Horrors and Horrors were Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors, respectively. But I get why the icons makes that impractical.

If I had to change anything, I'd go for losing Leader on the Firewyrms and increasing their price. 120k?

And I think AG4 is justified in the fluff. They aren't sluggish giant earthworms, but mostly magical, twisting, changing, flowing with the warping fires of chaos, all that sorta deal. Hard to pin down.

Last edited by xnoelx on %b %21, %2012 - %19:%Nov; edited 1 time in total

Duder

Joined: Mar 13, 2012

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:19

Also, Great Stats Whatball!

Very fun read.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:35

Duder wrote:

Pygmy is my favorite of these, but I do think they need some tweaking. Overall I think they are a great tactical team that provide a nice challenge and wouldn't want to see a drastic overhaul. My biggest concern for the team is that the Jaguar Warriors are not worthwhile. I often just benched mine because he had little to offer on a that drive. Also including ttm would be nice. The lack of dodge makes the team very crunchy and does not fluffwise fit in my opinion, little hunter/stalker pygmies should be very adept at dodging. I would consider changing the gen access over to the jaguars (and giving the jaguars dodge instead of sprint) and giving the alligators st access and ttm.

I agree mostly with this. Only once have I had a Jaguar warrior that has been worthwhile. And that was because the opponent missed he had sprint.

I have the following points to make:

The linos are expensive due to shadowing not being much cop.
Eagle warriors are too cheap, but really need to come with dodge.
Alligator warriors are just fine.
As with Krox of course
Jaguar Warriors need to lose sprint and possibly shadow and gain something. Dauntless would work best, frenzy would work better fluffwise

Duder

Joined: Mar 13, 2012

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 19:47

harvestmouse wrote:

Duder wrote:

Pygmy is my favorite of these, but I do think they need some tweaking. Overall I think they are a great tactical team that provide a nice challenge and wouldn't want to see a drastic overhaul. My biggest concern for the team is that the Jaguar Warriors are not worthwhile. I often just benched mine because he had little to offer on a that drive. Also including ttm would be nice. The lack of dodge makes the team very crunchy and does not fluffwise fit in my opinion, little hunter/stalker pygmies should be very adept at dodging. I would consider changing the gen access over to the jaguars (and giving the jaguars dodge instead of sprint) and giving the alligators st access and ttm.

I agree mostly with this. Only once have I had a Jaguar warrior that has been worthwhile. And that was because the opponent missed he had sprint.

I have the following points to make:

The linos are expensive due to shadowing not being much cop.
Eagle warriors are too cheap, but really need to come with dodge.
Alligator warriors are just fine.
As with Krox of course
Jaguar Warriors need to lose sprint and possibly shadow and gain something. Dauntless would work best, frenzy would work better fluffwise

I definitely agree with the expensive linos and with the Eagle comments.

Frenzy would make good fluff for the jaguars, but does not make them more attractive without gen access. I would gladly take dauntless and dodge in place of sprint and shadowing.

Sigmar1

Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 20:56

I move that WhatBall selects a single specific team for in depth analysis/ community suggestions and starts a new thread on which we may offer/ debate specific alterations, which he can then ignore and do what he likes.

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WhatBall

Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 21:18

Sigmar1 wrote:

I move that WhatBall selects a single specific team for in depth analysis/ community suggestions and starts a new thread on which we may offer/ debate specific alterations, which he can then ignore and do what he likes.

That is the plan. Wanted to start with the overall stats and get a general sense of the state of Stunty. Next step will be me starting a thread on Star Players as a warm up. That should happen this weekend. Then we move to individual teams.

Synn

Joined: Dec 13, 2004

Posted: Nov 21, 2012 - 21:31

WhatBall wrote:

Sigmar1 wrote:

I move that WhatBall selects a single specific team for in depth analysis/ community suggestions and starts a new thread on which we may offer/ debate specific alterations, which he can then ignore and do what he likes.

That is the plan. Wanted to start with the overall stats and get a general sense of the state of Stunty. Next step will be me starting a thread on Star Players as a warm up. That should happen this weekend. Then we move to individual teams.

Potential obstacle is the idea that doing one team at a time produces new balance issues. Perhaps do multiple passes before codifying any changes is way to reduce that.

__Synn