Chewie
Joined: Dec 13, 2006
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 Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 01:03 |
 
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My opinion is that big guys aren't linemen.  |
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SeraphimRed
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 01:38 |
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Ok guys,
To clarify, Big Guys are considered positionals, so are Jedi only.
Now everyone has had time to dijest the initial proposal and clarify some points, a few things that would be worth thinking about now whilst everyone is discussing the rules are:
What do you think of banning Dorfs and Rosters such as Ogres that don’t lend themselves very well to the format?
What do you think of the optional rules for the sides of the force?
If we keep them, do they need tweaking, e.g. Retire a sent off Jedi only on a roll of 6 not 5/6?
Which side would you prefer to fight on, this may indicate imbalance in the optional rules?
Should we pigeon hole races into sides of the force? i.e. Dark Elf = Dark Side.
A valid point about excess cash and stars has been raised. So, what do people think about hiring stars and wizards?
Should we reduce Close retirement SPPs to 22? This would deplete excess funds.
If you can think of others please post.
My stance on recruitment for the league is this:
I am in no rush to start this. I would rather get the right coaches and not simply the right number.
I’m thus far very happy with those that have put their names down. If we hammer out a clean set of rules and get a good number, I’m thinking 16, then we will start creating teams and get the ball rolling.
Thanks so far guys. Sorry if I have missed something. |
_________________
Enhance YOUR FUMBBL
Last edited by SeraphimRed on %b %20, %2007 - %01:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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sonofmus
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 01:52 |
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i am still relatively a noob, but dorfs do seem to imbalance this format a bit considering linemen will make up 82% of the rosters at minimum -- and the dorf lineman is so hardcore. although it seems very unbloodbowl-like to ban them. maybe give them some other handicap or some such to balance things a bit. maybe say they must be retired after their second skill up rather than third? are dorf linemen the only ones who get 2 skills at 0 spp?
as far as limiting certain races to light side/dark side: i absolutely think the race should determine the side of the force they fight on. and both sides ought to have an equal amount of bashiness and dodginess if possible. could there, however be neutral races -- ones that could go either way? For example, humans, norse, or zons could be either light or dark? Or is there a bloodbowl standard? Again... noob speaking so make sure your grain of salt is handy while reading this. |
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SeraphimRed
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 01:57 |
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I'm not commenting yet sono, on my way to bed. 
Just a quick post to say I edited the one above to include discussion points about star wizs and retirement SPP of Clones. |
_________________
Enhance YOUR FUMBBL
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 20, 2007 - 02:00 |
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On the fouling bit:
- the chance of doubleskulling is 1/36 assuming 2db. These will in the majority of instances be rerolled.
- the chance of getting caught on a foul is a little less than 1/6 (counting argue). Multiplied with a 2/6 chance of getting retired post-game the chance of a light side player getting retired is a lot higher than that of a dark side player on a straight comparison. However, you foul a lot less than you throw blocks. Fouls are usually a lot more optional as well.
Just looking at the scenario so far id say the above is pretty balanced.
The question arises how this will affect skill selections. Since clones and droids cant chose dirty player, you have to foul with a jedi/sith if you want any omph in your fouls. Running the risk of having your jedi retired means the light side will foul VERY sparingly using dp skill. Id think twice of even chosing that skill.
The retirement of clones due to doubleskulls might mean that dark side teams think twice about blocking at all once theyre out of rerolls.
Coupling these two effects you might very well see a preference for many dodgey teams that avoid blocking and fouling. Things might very well turn into elfball.
Perhaps im reading too much into the meta gaming of this. I'll happily play whatever team and get some nice fluff going for my team and get laser-sabered into oblivion and laughing all the way. Holy run-on sentence.
Ogres: tough one. With only one reroll at start they wont be as dangerous as youd think. Lots of turnovers here.
Dwarves: big problem here is that they completely tear any stunty team to shreds. I say no to dwarves. |
_________________
Even small goblins make large dents if provided sufficient thrust.
A well aimed goblin is the second most dangerous thing on a Bloodbowl pitch.
The Boyz |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Nov 20, 2007 - 02:11 |
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I will likely join. I am thinking wood elves - wardancers to start with are jedi...then all linemen otherwise...as the wardancers skill up - get more positional players (jedi)...of course the problem will be the cost of replacing them dang linemen if they skill up too much...money is tight enough.
Perhaps: number of spp allowed on a clone should depend on cost of clone? Really, no great solution that I see...just make some rules - play it out and see what happens, maybe have to adjust after the first season if there are imbalances that show up. |
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Nicodemus1
Joined: May 06, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 02:29 |
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I´m in....
My thoughts are almost identical with Azure
plus... If dorfs are banned, would´nt that make zones ideal?
And i´m thinking of joining with my very first Vamp team!
And i can hardly see them as anything but The Royal Naboo Security Force
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_________________
Why cant we all be friends! Said the dying elf...
Last edited by Nicodemus1 on %b %20, %2007 - %23:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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tenpole
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 05:56 |
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All teams should be from the Stunty roster. |
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magan174
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 07:00 |
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| SeraphimRed wrote: | Ok guys,
To clarify, Big Guys are considered positionals, so are Jedi only.
Now everyone has had time to dijest the initial proposal and clarify some points, a few things that would be worth thinking about now whilst everyone is discussing the rules are:
What do you think of banning Dorfs and Rosters such as Ogres that don’t lend themselves very well to the format?
What do you think of the optional rules for the sides of the force?
If we keep them, do they need tweaking, e.g. Retire a sent off Jedi only on a roll of 6 not 5/6?
Which side would you prefer to fight on, this may indicate imbalance in the optional rules?
Should we pigeon hole races into sides of the force? i.e. Dark Elf = Dark Side.
A valid point about excess cash and stars has been raised. So, what do people think about hiring stars and wizards?
Should we reduce Close retirement SPPs to 22? This would deplete excess funds.
If you can think of others please post.
My stance on recruitment for the league is this:
I am in no rush to start this. I would rather get the right coaches and not simply the right number.
I’m thus far very happy with those that have put their names down. If we hammer out a clean set of rules and get a good number, I’m thinking 16, then we will start creating teams and get the ball rolling.
Thanks so far guys. Sorry if I have missed something. |
I love the idea that a double skull get you retired. That way I would laugh alot more when i hit a double skull. But it feels a bit unbalanced. If the jedi is retired if he fails the roll after a foul and a sith goes on a double skull. I can always choose to not foul with the jedi. But the I have never chosen to roll double skulls before : ) Im I getting this right? |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 08:20 |
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| Quote: | | What do you think of banning Dorfs and Rosters such as Ogres that don’t lend themselves very well to the format? |
I'm all for it. As someone mentioned it might be worhwhile banning amazons as well. It's much more important to have a balanced system then to stay true to the LRB rule set. This is after all a league packed with house rules anyway...
I really hope to see this happen. I think this league can be great, but only if this is implemented. I'll probably not join at all if dwarves are around.
| Quote: | What do you think of the optional rules for the sides of the force?
If we keep them, do they need tweaking, e.g. Retire a sent off Jedi only on a roll of 6 not 5/6? |
It's hard to know if they are perfectly balanced, but they are interesting.
Retiring linemen on double skulls will likely cost more in the long run, but the option of having a dirty player to foul the opposing jedi's to a pulp is a big bonus. I say keep them as they are!
| Quote: | | Which side would you prefer to fight on, this may indicate imbalance in the optional rules? |
I would chose side depending on the fluff of my team.
| Quote: | | Should we pigeon hole races into sides of the force? i.e. Dark Elf = Dark Side. |
I don't really see a need for it. It's Star Wars based after all...the chosable races won't represent their race anyway.
| Quote: | | A valid point about excess cash and stars has been raised. So, what do people think about hiring stars and wizards? |
I think stars will be a bit too good with the lack of positionals, but maybe allowing to freeboot positionals would be a way to waste some of the excess cash? Wizards should be allowed I think.
| Quote: | | Should we reduce Close retirement SPPs to 22? This would deplete excess funds. |
Nah, 31 is fine I think. |
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 10:42 |
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Good point about the amazons there. A cadre of blodging players will be hard stopped. |
_________________
Even small goblins make large dents if provided sufficient thrust.
A well aimed goblin is the second most dangerous thing on a Bloodbowl pitch.
The Boyz |
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damatze
Joined: May 22, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 11:19 |
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I dont get the point about Dwarfs: A bunch of slow players with AG2. And two Masters with AG3... I really can live with that...
Ogres? I see a "new-team" problem here (you won´t get 11 players when gobbos are the Jedis and they probably don`t become Masters at all). But thats why maybe nobody wants to chose that race -> no problem here.
So I don`t mind any race in this league. It`s up to the commisioner, if he wants to abandon any.
| Quote: | | Two skulls is harder than no foul! |
Yes I totally agree! I think there is an unevenity comming up. Maybe we should set for the light side something else up (I don`t wanna lose the two skulls rule, because this is fun!):
Jedis are perfectionists. They see a bug in there clones whenever a losen ball, in no Taklezones, is not picked up and causes a turnover. Then they disassemble the whole clone to find the bug. (Player must be retired). (just an idea) |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 11:41 |
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| Quote: | | I dont get the point about Dwarfs: A bunch of slow players with AG2. And two Masters with AG3... I really can live with that... |
With the SPP 31 retirement rule you have a team with block/tackle/guard/mb facing the not so impressive linemen of the other races. If the defense for their overskilled players is that they might be too bad to effectively score on their own, keep in mind that you would be defending a bunch of 0-0 matches where lots of the opponents would end up crippled. It just wouldn't be fun.
Even the dwarven weakness with low speed and poor AG is mostly a weakness towards ball carrying specialists on other teams. It's not easy to break through a slow moving team with mostly just linemen. |
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damatze
Joined: May 22, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 12:32 |
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Yeah, Pirog, I can get that! But don`t you have the same problem playing dwarfs in regular games?
And dont forget: when those dwarven linos are that impressive, they get quick to 31 SSP and need to be retired! |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 20, 2007 - 12:52 |
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| Quote: | | Yeah, Pirog, I can get that! But don`t you have the same problem playing dwarfs in regular games? |
Personally I think dwarves are very boring to play no matter what context, but with the help of positionals dwarves cages etc. can be broken more easily. Not to mention breaking through their defenses. Low skilled linemen with MA 5-7 aren't that well equipped to running past considerably better skilled MA 4 players.
So I think dwarves will be much stronger in a league designed for mostly low skilled linemen than they are compared to general play.
| Quote: | | And dont forget: when those dwarven linos are that impressive, they get quick to 31 SSP and need to be retired! |
Dwarves are quite easy to manage actually, so I think they would have it a lot easier to build a team where all linemen end up close to SPP 30 compared to the other teams, since all players allready have good starting skills. And they also skill up quite easily since they start with block and tackle.
The other teams will have to make use of the skilled up linemen they have compared to the rookies, meaning that it will get tougher to develop the team in a balanced manner. |
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